posted 18th April 2002 17:34
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1) If you are running the fuel that low you should remember the line in the good green book that refers to 'endangering safety of an aircraft' and possibly be satisified at a 1261.
2) Maybe the controller was not at his best socially and didnt appreciate your possible 'nervous humour'
When flying for recreation I would never plan my fuel so tightly that I could not get to my alternate and still have plenty of fuel for several go-arounds. I would also not want to be so close to the a/c ahead of me that the other pilot could feel me breathing down his neck on final. Joe Public on the flight in question would surely have been horrified if they had known the situation that was developing around them, and that if they did not get down first time there might not be sufficient fuel for the next one.
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Ladies and Gents,
Thanks for your collective interest.
I started this NOT because I felt like a whinge at BF because, frankly I’ve been at this game too long to worry that an MOR might damage my career.
I know in my own mind that I did the right thing, and we all lived, so I don’t care if I upset a few vested interests in discussing it afterwards.
Also, I try not to do ‘nervous humour’. Ordinary humour if it gets people to read the post is enough. I don’t do ‘nervous’ when I am dealing with Brit. ATC, either. I have asked for the waters to be parted before, and I know exactly what miracles you people can achieve. (Last time at LATCC sitting in as the ‘emergency’, Don G gave me a GCA into Birmingham from an en-route screen, as I couldn’t see or change freq. Impressive)
What I did want to do was start a discussion on this last bit of the approach, and your conceptions of our capabilities, fuelwise.
Interestingly, back at LATCC, one of you thought it would be helping us to put us in a hold for fuel dumping. I pointed out that we specifically DIDN’T want this. (Getting your own fuel back). This made me wonder if there weren’t similar misconceptions on our fuel capabilities on the approach.
The above quote on recreational flying is frightening.
Yes we plan for 20mins VERY minimum on entering the TMA airspace. But that’s it chaps. Once we are in there, the clock starts ticking and we can’t leave. Full stop. Once committed in the hold to LHR (or anywhere else for that matter), having accepted the EAT, then on leaving the hold for an approach, not only do we not have enough fuel to divert to ANYWHERE, but we don’t necessarily have enough fuel to do a go-around AT ALL, even a truncated one. Did you know that?
Now do you see why I ask for a bit more room? If you stick me on a 15 mile final staring up the jet-pipes of an AirUzbekistan Tu 154, 2.5 miles in front of me, on only his second visit to Planet Earth, wouldn’t it make you nervous?
That’s worst case, BUT it is legal, it is increasingly normal, AND IT IS WHAT OUR COMPANIES WANT US TO DO!
We try not to get into this fuel position, but a lot can happen to us between say Singapore and LHR. We are frequently weight limited out of there and cannot carry anything other than minimum LEGAL fuel. And that includes HEL or FRA as an en-route alt. We make the fuel (non) decision when you are probably on the previous shift to the one when we get to talk to you for the landing.
We are commercially and politically leaned on just as you are. I have copied my Tech. Manager with some of your replies. I want my company to know your views as well as mine.
Day before yesterday, if the TWR lady had listened carefully as she said ‘Speedbird 282, runway 27L wind 260/7 kts cleared to land’ she might have heard the yank at the back (computerised voice on flight deck) say ‘DECIDE’. That’s ten seconds to landing. On that flight we had nearly 5 tonnes spare on landing. Just enough for a standard go-around, riches indeed. If we hadn’t had that fuel…. A bit late, shall we say.
Did you know a 400 can do an automatic go-around on 3 engines up until 2 seconds AFTER 5 feet radio (wheel) height? Very clever machine. It won’t do it on some approaches though. Not enough fuel.
The other day I was sitting at the end of 09R waiting to take off. One of our Squadron (400s) broke off his app. To 09L and did a split ar**d S turn and landed on 09R. Nice piece of flying, fun too. Anybody see it? Ask yourselves WHY he did it. If you can’t think, see above. Also ask yourself what was going through his mind as he was doing it. If he had cocked it up with the fuel he probably didn’t have, well…….
This isn’t a futuristic fantasy, this is here and now, and almost certainly happened today.
As they say, discuss.
If you have been ….. thanks for listening.
ANTIGUA
