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Old 2nd January 2009 | 12:49
  #47 (permalink)  
CHfour
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Joined: Mar 2006
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From: England
DC-ATE
We were in the overcast at 15T (MSL), terrain ~ 7000 (Colorado Springs area). We DID have engine anit-ice on, but NOT wing. 737 has NO tail de-ice. Boeing said the tail didn't ice. How stupid can you be?!

Anyway, after doing the Clean, and Maneuver stall and revocery, the Landing configuation was next (gear down, 40 flap). I started to feel the elevator buffet before receiving the stick shaker, so called for the recovery procedure: T/O Power (excuse me...thrust), Flaps 15 (that procedure has changed a few times with regard to Flap setting). The "Captain Instructor" criticized me for not "taking it to the stick shaker." I told him I thought the "procedure" was to recognize an impending stall and recover. He said to take it to the stick shaker. Knowing I had sufficient altitude, I agreed and re-did the maneuver. As I started to feel the elevator buffet, I called that to his attention. You could see the stick moving back and forth! He said..."Take it to the Stick Shaker!" I might add that the buffett occured at a higher IAS than previous (more ICE!). Well, the stick shaker did come on and I called for the recovery procedure. He firewalled the throttles (excuse me...thrust levers) and we simply started to go DOWN with no increase in speed. I aksed him if he believed me now that we we starting to stall when I felt the buffett. He was kinda over there frozen not knowing just what was going on. Well, if you've flown the 737 (this was a -200 BTW), you'll know that with increased thrust the nose has a tendency to go up. I waited to see if this "Captain/Instructor" knew what to do. It was obvious he did not so I merely removed his hands from the throttles and pulled the throttles back about half way. The nose came down; speed picked up and I flew out of it. Simple.

I asked him after that if he though we might have some ice. My flying partner and I had both suggested wing anti-ice earlier, but he "knew better!" We flipped on the wing ice light and what do ya know? ICE. About 3 to 4 inches of the nice stuff! So, he calmly turns on the wing ice and we head for the barn. I said what about the tail, knowing there is NO tail anti-ice. He said not to worry because Boeing says the tail doesn't ice on this airplane.

Yes, this incedent was fully reported with NOTHING comming out of it. Wonder why?!?! We lost a 37 at MDW because of airfoil ice but it was never admitted to in the accident report. Why? Because Charlie Fox Dog (the Chicago Fire Department) said there was no ice visible when they got to the crash site. Well, .....the aircraft was on fire!

So.....the "BOOK" isn't always right. There's quite a few people no longer with us because some thought that. Sad.

Enough!
I recently took part in a power off control check on a ferry flight. The elevator had been removed and re-fitted so the rigging had to be checked to make sure the aircraft would be controllable using manual reversion. We had to climb to FL350 and be VMC in daylight to carry out the check and we only carried out some straight and level stuff. I'm amazed that your company allowed stall training in IMC/Icing conditions. I can only speak for the 300 sim which does have a violent pitch up when TOGA is applied but we were instructed to apply full nose down elevator and apply nose down pitch trim until pitch control is recovered. You do see some extreme nose up attitudes but the thrust keeps you flying (provided you're not carrying ice?). I think Boeing suggest rolling the aircraft for extreme nose up attitudes to bring the nose back to the horizon but I would not fancy rolling a stalled aircraft myself. Thanks for taking the trouble to recall the story. I'm glad I don't fly for your company as I don't think I'm brave enough to get through your conversion training! I assume by the 200 reference that this happened some time ago?
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