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Old 2nd Dec 2008, 11:16
  #184 (permalink)  
Tim McLelland
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Sheffield
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it was preached that to be homosexual was wrong

Exactly - preached... as if by preaching something it means it's right when of course it was/is simply poisonous nonsense. Some people are attracted to the opposite sex - normal. Likewise, some people are attracted to the same sex - normal. How commonplace does something have to be before it becomes normal? Just because society suffers from fashion trends, it's a bit much to be expected to be classed as "abnormal" depending on what beliefs and attitudes happen to be in vogue at any given time!

The old argument about people having a fetish for children, animals and many other bizarre subjects is an old and rather specious one. Obviously, there have always been some (but not many) people with their own bizarre fetishes but we're not talking about that. We're talking about homosexuality which, even by the most pessimistic of statistics, applies to at least ten percent of the population. It's probably fair to say that it applies to many more but while there's social pressure to reinforce the notion that homosexuality is uncommon (and therefore abnormal), you'd be surprised at the numbers of people who claim to be heterosexual and who are patently not - at least not exclusively. You probably wouldn't believe me I guess, but if you ever spent some time talking to people such as health workers who encounter all kinds of people and circumstances, you'd know that the world is full of people who fit neatly into the gay or bisexual category - but either avoid saying so, or try to convince themselves that they don't. But I digress - the point is that you really can't say that a human condition which applies to so many people - and has always done - is somehow abnormal. It's a contradition in terms. Trying to connect homosexuality to beastaility or paedophilia is just cheap and rather old. Even the newspapers have dropped that kind of rubbish!

I understand what you're saying and I'm sure that you think that by claiming to "tolerate" homosexuality, you're being very reasonable and liberal. But I (and many others like me) don't want you or anyone else to "tolerate" us. We'd just like you to accept that just like some people are straight, some are gay and leave it at that! I don't have any need to "tolerate" straight people so I really can't see why there's any need for anyone to do the opposite. Surely we can just accept that we are who we are and we're born how we are, and get on with our lives? I've heard lots of stories about people who (like yourself) claim to have endured the advances of a gay man but so what? I presume you've also endured the advances of a few girls too? So what's the difference? I would imagine that you're more than able to politely decline?! The implication is that gay men are all predatory wierdos and no straight man can feel comfortable in their presence. Of course it's nonsense - it's no different to being in the presence of a woman, unless you seriously believe that it's somehow okay for the odd girl to fancy you, but not so much as one gay man?

your entire argument, well presented though it may be, falls apart. There is absolutely no connection between homosexuality/homophobia and racism, not even a little thread.

Well I'm inclined to point-out that simply making this statement doesn't necessarily mean it's true! Of course there's a connection, in fact it's exactly the same. I'm no more able to change my sexual preference than a black guy can change the colour of his skin. It's not a lifestyle choice that one picks out of a magazine. You presumably wouldn't have any issues with the concept of working with, or being freinds with a black, Chinese, disabled or any other categorised person you might care to think of, so why on Earth do you suppose there should be some sort of exception for gay people?

It's quite funny that some (okay not all) people have some truly odd preconceptions and beliefs about the whole gay issue and I'm convinced it has has absolutely nothing to do with one's honest beliefs and attitudes. Ultimately it's down to upbringing, social conditioning, and - in quite a few cases - personal sexual issues which tend to contaminate one's views of others. It's encouraging to note that there are very many (particularly younger) straight men who have absolutely no issues with gay people at all. They're happy to work with gay people, be good friends with them, share showers if necessary (eek!), share beds even (and no I don't mean for sex), and so on, and be completely open about themselves, their lives, even their sex lives, without any need for worries about whether the person they're with might be gay or not. Any why? Because they've grown-up without all the old "baggage" being imposed upon them and they're secure with their own sexuality - and so they don't have any issues with anybody else's. That's how it should be. The armed forces have (finally - and with more than a little encouragement from their British and European political masters) done a great deal to stop all the situations where prejudice and social "bullying" placed gay people in very difficult situations. Now all that is left to do is to wait until the whole issue finally drifts away - which it inevitably will do in time. I accept that us poofs will always be the victims of cheap jokes and banter but that's fine - it's no different to being picked-on for being ginger or being a fat b*stard! I just hope or wish that the remaining "diehards" would try to understand that we're not wierd, not predatory rapists, and not even uncommon. It's a pity that some people can't carry "gaydar" detectors in their pockets - I think they'd be quite astonished if they even had a clue just how many gay people they do interact with, and don't even know it!
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