Originally Posted by RansS9
Dear AirRabbit,
I read your article on final approach / flare...it's great. On your scale C150 to 747 I'm definately at the low hours C150 end. However I'm slightly confused...a not unusual situation. Two points
a) I've got three seconds to retard the throttle and remove any crab. Does the three seconds start when I start to initiate the flare or when I achieve the level flight attiude?
b)Is the gust factor that's added the total gust or the component along the runway?
Apologises if this is all blindingly obvious.
TIM
Originally Posted by framer
Dear RansS9,
If you are a low time pilot just do exactly as you are being taught by your instructor. Don't muck around with final aproach speeds etc. Wait until you have 1000hrs then revisit the idea.(Unless Airrabbit is your instructor of course)
Hi RansS9:
It's nice to know that there are those on this forum who think very much alike - and, actually
framer beat me to the punch (thanks
framer!) He is exactly correct. I never recommend anyone doing anything contrary to what they are taught by their instructor or going against the dictates of their company policy.
Your question is a good one and the answer is that you should take approximately 3 seconds to flare and then not more than 3 more seconds to get the power to idle - and reaching idle should occur at the same time as the mains touching the runway. But, again, if you're working with an instructor, don't attempt to do this without discussing it with him/her. If you're really driven to try it and you're not working with an instructor now, what you may want to do is to discuss this with an instructor and ask him/her to go along with you while you work on the techniques involved. My point was to get folks to recognize that the proper attitude to touchdown is the level flight attitude for an established speed/configuration ... and that should put you comfortably between Vstall and Vref.
If you’re holding a crosswind correction (a crab), that correction is removed as you flare (as you have recognized) – and, here is one of the times when more rapid throttle reduction
MAY be warranted. The longer you stay in the air, the more time you give the wind to work on your position. The closer you are to the runway when you complete the flare and pressure the nose around to align with the runway, the quicker you can get on the ground – out of the air – and limit the time that the wind can work on your position. No doubt you will want to apply some “upwind” aileron to keep the forward sweeping wing from rising as it moves forward – but if the wind is strong, you might have to put a bit more aileron control into the wind – and wind up with a very slight bank angle into the wind. If necessary, this may cause you to wind up touching down on the up-wind wheel(s) first … but if you’re in a very shallow bank, by the time the gear struts retract (or the springs begin to give) that should put the down-wind wheel(s) on the surface pretty quickly.
When I taught in transport category airplanes, I used to get my students to understand what attitude I was describing by having them fly down the length of the runway (at 1 to 5 feet above the runway) at the speed reached after completing the flare ... which requires adding a bit of power to keep that airspeed. Then, when they had that part pretty well under control, I'd ask them to do the same thing - attempt to fly down the length of the runway (at that same 1 to 5 feet) - but I wouldn't let them add any power. Guess what? Without that additional power and by staying in the level flight attitude - the airplane cannot maintain level flight ... it will descend. And when it descends that 1-to-5-feet, you land - and the airplane is in the proper attitude to do that. Of course, with any power added, the touchdown is usually very soft and very "greasy," and
much farther down the runway than you would want. THAT is NOT what I was teaching. The point was to show that keeping the level flight attitude is not going to allow you to climb AND perhaps the most significant point is that the student learns to use whatever cues is logical to use to achieve and maintain that level flight attitude. When you flare, immediately reduce the power to idle (getting to idle as the wheels touch – and you can do it quickly or take up to 3 seconds, depending on the conditions) results in a firm (not hard) landing – firm enough to get the wheels on the surface (and through water, snow, ice, etc.) with an attitude that still allows airflow over the tail (for directional control until you get the nose gear on the ground) and because the nose is not way up there, you can fly it to the runway pretty quickly – and have that nosewheel steering available that much more quickly.
I used to teach my students to land the way I landed. I land fine (at least I think I do - haha). So ... how come they couldn't do it? Well, different pilots use different input cues to determine what to do with the airplane at different points … when to do it, how much to do, when to take out an input, etc. So I adjusted my teaching approach and decided to let the students figure out what cues were best for them to use to flare to "a level flight attitude" ... They
may find that what I use works for them – but they
may not – and I found that it was mostly NOT. Therefore, because I wanted them to determine what cues they thought were best to maintain that attitude without having to do it by reference to the attitude indicator or altimeter, I didn’t tell them I was teaching them to find the level flight attitude, I merely told them to fly down the runway – without climbing … without descending … without accelerating … and without decelerating. What is the definition of “level flight” again? I wanted my students to fly the airplane as well as they could - not necessarily the way I fly the airplane. And when they find out what works for them ... it DOES make a difference!
So, again, as
framer said,
if you’re working with an instructor –don’t mess around with this – do what your instructor teaches you to do. If you’re not working with an instructor and want to try out this method, I’d recommend getting with an instructor and tell him or her what you want to do … and then go from there. Most instructors will be willing to see what it is you’re describing, if they don’t already do something similar. Let me know what you decide to do.