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Old 9th Nov 2008, 08:41
  #20 (permalink)  
421C
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: London
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thanks for all the replays.
What we are looking for is an airplane with good altitude capacity (up to 180) able to fly in icing condition, and IFR rated.
Up to now the SR22 meet all these need. About the cessna 400 is not clear if the oxygen is built in like on the SR22, and if it has some sort of anti-icing.
The Cirrus is available with TKS deicing - but it is not certified for flight in known icing (FIKI).

The distinction is that a non-FIKI aircraft has to exit icing conditions immediately upon encountering them, and should not enter "known" icing conditions. This latter definition is subject to some interpretation - it certainly means conditions where other aircraft have reported icing, and may mean conditions where the forecast has a high degree of likelihood that icing will occur.

My impression is that the lack of FIKI in the Cirrus is not just a technicality. Anecdotally, I believe the Cirrus wing design, whilst very efficient, is particularly poor at handling icing conditions. I am sure the TKS helps overcome this disadvantage, but I have no idea how closely it brings the airplanes capability to true FIKI levels.

The remarks about FIKI certification makes me feel the need to ask if it's sensible to fly in any icing with a single engine, given their performance...

IMHO, FIKI and piston does not go well together.
Icing is not a binary condition of not-present/safe vs present/danger. It is a continuum from the many times you are in visible moisture below 0C with no trace of icing, to severe conditions that must be exited in any aircraft.

A FIKI certified piston aircraft is safe in a wide range of conditions that a non-FIKI certified one isn't. It makes planning easier, actual flight easier and staying legal easier. The cost and complexity of certified deice equipment is not just a cosmetic...it adds a lot to the capabilities of a piston aircraft. Of course, the value of such a capability is very personal and every lack of capability has a "work-around" some pilots will swear by and therefore say the capability is not that important. If you don't mind being uncertain about a winter trip outcome in advance, planning all sorts of contingencies and becoming an amateur meteorologist wrt cloud tops, perhaps pushing the legal boundary a bit in flight, and being prepared for the (albeit remote) chance of requiring an ATC deviation that needs some explaining afterwards then you don't need FIKI certification in a single.

But it is a myth that "icing and piston aircraft don't go together". In practice, there are a lot of prolonged icing conditions that a FIKI aircraft will handle perfectly safely, and relatively few it can't - most often convective weather you would need to avoid icing or no icing.

Glexdriver, it sounds as if you want an aircraft to do longish IFR trips with 2 people and bags. What you will find is that pilots use everything from a 172 to a Citation to do such trips, and often people swear that their plane is the ideal solution.

I think the Cirrus and Cessna 400 are brilliant modern designs, and the development that goes into these aircraft is fantastic - the Cirrus Perspective is just fab. They are rightly best sellers because the price point and "new" aircraft status attracts a lot of buyers. They are not all weather transport aircraft, but great for leisure trips. To give you an example - if you had a holiday home in southern Europe and wanted to commute to it from northern Europe, a Cirrus is fine if the certainty of getting there is not critical, because in practice you will get there almost all of the time. However, if you wanted to use it for business travel in the winter, or to get to a ski resort at weekends, it won't do.

The other factor is cabin comfort. For regular long trips, the noise/vibration and oxygen requirement is not ideal in a typical single. A cabin-class, pressurised aircraft like the Piper Malibu is a very big improvement in this respect. In comparison, the Cessna P210 is a bit cramped and dated.

With a $500k budget, if my main requirement was fun/leisure with occasisonal touring, I think a Cirrus or C400 would be great. The more I needed long range trips, the more compelling a used Malibu would be.

brgds
421C
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