Rainboe: Do you mean to come across on a bit of a downer towards engineers or are you just trying to spark a lively debate? Input is always welcome from flight deck crew and can go some way towards helping rectify a problem that is not easily replicated on the ground but this can be taken too far sometimes where individuals feel they know more than the manuals, MEL, and any other approved documentation. I would imagine they are the ones that dont get invited out for beers down route........... :-)