Ozzie, you begin to count when you lift the nosewheel off.....'and one and two and three and four and.........er five' by which time you should be through 10 degrees attitude where the rotation stops of its own accord, so you have to try and judge it to drag it a bit more up to 13-17 degrees, sometimes 20 if you are light. Once you get used to the rate, you don't need to count. There's a lot going on just then, the crosswind is then swinging the plane around, you're calling gear up and trying to nail the right speed.