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Old 24th Oct 2008, 11:34
  #19 (permalink)  
SNS3Guppy
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
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According to a book I read (Air Babylon, I think) so this must be 100% copper bottomed fact because it wasn't on the internet, the airlines normally arrange for the death to occur just before the scheduled landing, which avoids all kinds of complications. Obviously this could be done only if the passenger is obviously dead when discovered.
Airlines don't arrange for anyone to die. Or be declared dead, at any particular point in space or time. As a pilot it's not in my purview to make such a call, nor is it within my discretion or the airline's to elect when or where such a declaration takes place. Decisions are made based on safety of flight; a deceased passenger presents no risk to safety of flight.

If a diversion can safely be made and it may save a passenger, chances are that this is what will occur. Because neither I nor my employer can decide who lives or dies or how that this may occur, I can't state for a certainty that a passenger has died and make decisions on that assumption. Just imagine what be the case if the passenger could have been saved.

Unofficially I can tell you that what you often hear about medics working on someone feverishly until they officially expire at the hospital, isn't true. If someone is clearly dead, they're clearly dead. I've dealt with this on-scene on a number of occasions, and we don't pick up dead bodies and begin working on them to please families, the media, or anyone else. If they're dead, they're dead. The same applies to one onboard. If someone is beyond help, then we don't make a determination as to the time of death, we simply do our job.

Others can determine time or place of death after the fact; people who are qualified to make that determination.

I'm surprised that, based on the OP, people start having visions of the worst-case scenario, requiring doctors, nurses, vomiting, cardiac arrest, late-term pregnancy/premature birth etc. All the stuff you see on these 911-type reality TV shows.
It's not just on TV...it's what occurs to me because it's what I expect, what I've seen. It's not just hollywood drama. Real people vomit. Real people have heart attacks. Real people go into labor at inconvenient times...every day. However, you're correct, these aren't typically what a private pilot will carry, save for an unusual emergency.

What the original poster did ask about, however, is a medical patient who may have specific needs. Simple needs such as the carriage and use of oxygen. Many people don't know that oxygen is considered a drug...it's not just a canister of gas that's okay to administer as needed. Specific flow rates for specific conditions, based on administrative methods and masks, in response to changes in blood oxygen saturation and vitals, is applicable. Undertaking a medical patient under care, even if it's a terminal patient, is undertaking a potential risk, and undertaking a potential safety of flight issue.

I transported a woman once, and was told that she was simply being transported in order to visit a clinic. She sat up front with me. She was a very large Hopi Indian lady, and I elected to put her up front for the weight and balance. Upon arrival, she said she had a headache. I offered her a tylenol, and she said she couldn't take medication. She then told me she was going into a program for an attempted suicide. I wasn't informed of this before, or I certainly wouldn't have put this person close to the flight controls, and probably wouldn't have carried her at all. What is it that YOU don't know about the seemingly innocuous patient that you're carrying??

I've transported terminal cancer patients on a number of occasions, often with far more than just me...full suport from on board technicians, etc. The cancer patient may have a number of requirements, some of which might not even be manifest until the airplane is at a higher enroute altitude. Suppose you encounter complications at that point? What are you going to do? Benign, quiet terminal patient just became vomiting violently sick cancer patient with a seizure...now what?

So... As long as the patient has been discharged from hospital, and you have consulted with a doctor or other specialist to determine the specific patients disease and the effect it might have on the safety of the flight, I think you should be fine from a flight safety standpoint.
I used to think that too. You can learn that's not true based on unpleasant experience, or listen to others who learned the hard way. It's up to you.

You can be sued for anything. Question should be: Can you be convicted? Now in this particular case, everyone knew his death was imminent and there was nothing the medical establishment could do about it anymore. If he were to die in your aircraft, have you been negligent enough to get convicted for that? Ask yourself: if he were to die in your house, would you as the homeowner be responsible? If he were to die on a public street, would the government be responsible? I think if you would have talked things over with a doctor, and the doctor agreed that the flight would not make his medical condition any worse than it was (thus not increasing the chances of dying above what they were) you should not have a problem at all.
Very dangerous counsel to give...and yes, you could very easily be sued for the expiration in your home, or your aircraft. If you can be associated with it, you would be foolish to think having spoken to a doctor or having a slip of paper will excuse you from litigation.

Guppy at what point do an airline require a Doctors letter as fit to travel? i know many turn passengers away not only for the reasons you put above but also for the huge costs and inconvenience a diversion might cause.
You're not required to prove you're fit for travel. If you require special accomodations and ask when you purchase your ticket, you may find that such accomodations are not available. A common scenario for an international non-critical transport is to purchase a block of seats and have a litter or station installed with which to transport. This is something we had to do in the past for international flights. Typically 9 or more seats had to be purchased, and we would supply the sled and equipment. The sled comes with internal power suction, oxygen, attachments, etc.

If someone undertakes travel knowing they're unable, they take upon themselves certain liabilities and risks.

Can you imagine the delays and trouble that would ensue if every passenger were required to provide a doctor's note in order to fly?
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