Okay. My Grandpa was the grand poo bah or whatever you call it of his lodge for a time. Lovely old fella. But, why so secretive? I've been to social functions at the lodge etc. and i'm sure much good is done. But the whole loyalty/secrecy thing disturbs me. At the end of the day it isn't a rugby club it is a very big, old club with (as far as i can work out) some rather strange and secretive pastimes/rituals. Its the secrecy which i find worrying. The dodgy handshakes, why not just bring it up in conversation? What is the point of determining that someone is a fellow mason discreetly? Argue all you want. I think it is wrong that gentlemen/women such as ourselves should be bound by a "discreet" societys rules. You cannot defend it reasonably. Bin the secrecy and it would be far less suspicious and more palatable to us who never roll our trouser legs up. Unless we go paddling of course.