peuce, the boot is on the ATC foot. In addition to your suggestion, demand and follow through with delays in meeting timelines due to workload, meet with individual managers at odd times instead of the managers as a group, demand rewrites in contracts over minor nuances, negotiate with indiviual managers in separate areas of responsibility, demand different requirements in Brisbane to those in Melbourne just to frustrate and delay negotiations further, bust up managerial union by starting false rumours and innuendoes of what one manager said about another manager, invite the managers to meet on your terms and not theirs. Managers have been using these tactics for years. Turn the tables.