Well being told to grow up is a good retort, as an adult and mature yourself you should know you do not reply to daft posts by drunken scottish people. As for commisioned types I meant leaders or airships as they hate to be called. Pilots and crew of the commisoned types I exclude from this debate as I admire them too highly. I was referring to commisioned leaders as in the ones that make the big choices, I stand by my word as they have got us into this mess, just not one is man enough to explain it.