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Old 1st Jun 2008, 15:56
  #181 (permalink)  
PJ2
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: BC
Age: 76
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FE Hoppy;
In such a case "you are on your own".
Concur fully - you're essentially in "test pilot territory". Although it is interesting from a hangar-flying pov, raising the notion as "an issue" is a non-sequitur, largely irrelevant to "airline pilot territory". The outcomes you described are logical conclusions to the forces at work in such circumstances and are not associated with skill level.

WRT to such a discussion and practising RTOs after V1 and then losing a second engine, (what about the twin-engine case?... ), the AF Concorde accident immediately comes to mind. They knew there was mention of fire very late in the takeoff roll. From the preliminary report, (which is all I have a copy of):

"At 14 h 42 min 31 s, the PF commenced takeoff. At 14 h 42 min 54 s, the PNF
called one hundred knots, then V1 nine seconds later.

"A few seconds after that, the right front tyre on the left main landing gear was destroyed,
very probably after having run over a piece of metal. The destruction of
the tyre resulted in large pieces of rubber being thrown against and damaging
parts of the aircraft.

"At 14 h 43 min 13 s, as the PF commenced the rotation, the controller informed
the crew the presence of flames behind the aircraft. The PNF acknowledged this
transmission and the FE announced the failure of engine n° 2. The recorded parameters
show a momentary loss of power on engine n° 1 that was not mentioned
by the crew. Eight seconds later the fire alarm sounded and the FE announced
that he was shutting down engine n° 2. The fire alarm then stopped. The PNF
drew the PF’s attention to the airspeed.

"At 14 h 43 min 30 s, the PF called for landing gear retraction. The controller confirmed
the presence of large flames behind the aircraft."
I don't think any of us need carry the discussion further concerning the decision the captain faced - it was likely understood once they knew the gear couldn't be raised.

edited to provide a link: As a further interesting point, the FAA produced an excellent paper on RTO's some years ago (1994 or so) entitled, "Takeoff Safety Training Aid", Section 2 of which is available here.

Last edited by PJ2; 1st Jun 2008 at 16:26.
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