PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Chinook - Still Hitting Back 3 (Merged)
View Single Post
Old 23rd May 2008, 04:49
  #3468 (permalink)  
walter kennedy
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 786
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Master of None
Thank you for a constructive reply – clear and to the point.
I am responding so as to get a common understanding of the importance of those course settings as found (as opposed to just being argumentative as so many posts here are).
.
<<The Pilots can set their course pointer to any heading they desire, they can have different settings between the two sides of the cockpit.>>
Agreed – this is how I originally understood it – only the track bar being slaved.
Now can you now see how your original description of the CDBs being on different headings confused and detracted from the point that the course selectors were on different headings? Going back to my basic point that they had traveled 40 miles to the position of way point change on 027 and from that position to the crash area was 035 mag and so the course selector settings of 028 and 035 were significant.
You are in good company – Grp Cpt Pulford, when asked by a law lord about Flt Lt Tapper having altered the course selector on his horizontal indicator, similarly confused the course selector pointer positions (to which 028 & 035 related) with CDI/CDB positions along with a lot of waffle that would not have allowed anyone without specific technical knowledge to get any further – leaving probably the impression that there was a fault and that these settings had no significance at all (you should read the transcripts of that bit of that inquiry - SELECT COMMITTEE ON CHINOOK ZD 576/Examination of Witness/ THURSDAY 27 SEPTEMBER 2001/GROUP CAPTAIN A D PULFORD/ Q48A).
Perhaps some of the amateur lawyers on this thread may like to debate the adequacy of Grp Cpt Pulfords answer – I'd be surprised if it did not attract some sort of censure if the Law Lords had another look (OK, I think from memory it was the chairman who asked this and he has sadly passed away, I believe). Oh and while any of you are looking at this reference, you may want to look at the a/c track as depicted in slides 25a & 25b – the turn to the right is absent and the track moved over from going through the position of way point change so as to reinforce the idea that they just flew straight in – compare with the maps I posted back in Jan #3095.
.
<<In VFR nav it is quite acceptable to have no navigation aid to point the pointer and bar at, infact it is quite usual, it merely functions as an indication to the handling Pilot as a desired track.>>
Understood – with no navaid influencing the track bar, it rests in a straight line with the course pointer and obviously gives a bigger, bolder indicator to line up on in this case than just the heading bug (which is often used for this).
It should be borne in mind, in this case, that the navigator had waypoints in the SuperTANS that may have been acting on the track bar if they had been slaved, or put another way if the HSIs had not been acting completely separately, so that the bar may not have been lined up with the HP's course pointer when it was on 035 - nevertheless I take your point that 035 on the course selector may have been just used as an aide to his following a particular heading instead of the less conspicuous heading bug.
However, this does not detract from the point that the HP had his course selector on a heading that just happened to be the actual track on that last leg which surely suggests that this track was intentional (odds of 359 to 1 against it being just a coincidence).
I am adding to this by suggesting that, in the limited arena of events between the position of way point change and the crash site, why would you bother with setting the course selector? - I can only suggest the process I described in post # 3470.
.
<<The indications from a PRC112 do not go onto the HSI in any way they are displayed on an entirely seperate display, rarely fitted.>>
Are you thinking of the QuickDraw gear? (Manufacturer's blurb “No aircraft modification is required: Simply plug the General Dynamics Quickdraw Interrogator into the crew member's headset connector on the intercom panel. It is available to interrogate a GPS-112 radio via the aircraft's onboard UHF line-of-sight radio.”). Someone on this thread has stated adamantly that they were not carrying this gear - on the other hand, it would be hard to know if the ARS6 set up was in place from casual inspection. “QuickDraw” only gives range – ARS6 has its own UHF antennas that also give approximate bearing.
System diagrams I have seen from other countries that use equivalents to ARS6 – in a/c with BUSs as that in 47D/HC2 Chinooks – route the range and bearing data to the HSIs – for obvious reasons of convenience to the pilots (data on their main nav instrument) otherwise where would you mount an extra panel in those a/c such that the HP can see it himself? If you are saying that you are familiar with HC2 systems and that you are confident that this is not the case then you have saved a lot of time here - but it would still be interesting to know exactly how this data was displayed in the later HC2s which did have ARS6 modules fitted.
walter kennedy is offline