PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Are Flex / De Rated take offs safe?
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Old 20th May 2008, 19:14
  #72 (permalink)  
FE Hoppy
 
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ssg

V1min, Vmax and V1 balanced are not news to most of us! They were to you half way through your discourse.


Now tell me, on any given day do you know which was used in your calculation?

Those of us who use (or produce) runway analysis on a daily basis can find it in the header on most types.

However, we do not see the the options not used in the calculation. The choice is made by company ops and perf departments based on statistical data and analysis of each runway.

If your company would prefer to bias engine failures to be above V1 and so take them airborne they will use V1min. If their are obstacles that limit your take off perf you may wish to use a high V1 thus giving better climb perf but biasing towards more stops.

Statistics show stopping in big jets is less safe so many if not most large companies prefer low V1s.

However if V1min is used the crew are not presented with V1 max or balanced or any other choices.

The reason for not presenting a range of speeds is that at the moment of failure during a take off the crew need to act, not think about whether or not to act. The thinking time is included in the V1 calculation. It is the time between Vef and the first action to stop at V1. This time can vary depending on the certification standards used and systems fitted.

Now your moving goalposts in the previous thread stated with a very simple question. In the case of an engine fire would you stop after V1. The correct answer to that question in NO.

To the question would you ever try to stop after V1 the answer is yes. But the reasons would need to be compelling.

Most runway analysis indicate what is the limiting factor for the take off and as long as it isn't field length OEI or VMBE there is some chance of stopping but that chance diminishes with every nano second you think about doing it.

When we think about using less than rated thrust it is because we accept that there is a maximum take off weight we are certified to use with rated thrust and our current weight is less than that.

If we are prepared to take off at max take off weight there is no argument against taking off with the lowest thrust allowed when we are below max take off weight.

In fact the latter is safer than the former for many reasons.

And it saves a lot of money, which makes our companies profit, which they pass on to us in pay scales, which we use to buy books about aeroplane performance!!!!!!!


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