Hi Beagler there is a lot of sense comming out of this thred, yes I agree both as a glider pilot and little airoplane driver of almost 30 years,lets add a bit of knottage if its windy my best attempt was 53 knots @ 30 off the active in a 152. still here though.If its livley and x/wind sure lets add a bit but, the point I am making is say 15 kts. steady x/wind at 30-45 off shouldnt require more a/s less flap maybe if its a high winger where rudder control is at a premium. agree? well thats my bit I havent scratched one yet and YES it was a Bulldog. got to flight test it too when ready!! Ha Ha it does wonderful things.Wanted to get my hands on one 4 years.