Very true, lawerboy, it is very easy to join straight in. But not really that much more difficult to join on, say, 1/2-mile base.. .. .Although this method doesn't give you quite as much awareness as an overhead join, I'd suggest that it's perfectly acceptable in almost all circumstances (the exception, possibly, being when you're totally unfamiliar with the field), as it allows you to get a good look at traffic on downwind, and join base leg slightly further out in order to give way to traffic in the circuit if necessary. And it adds much less than 4 minutes to the flight time, too! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="biggrin.gif" /> . .. .[Edit - after posting, and thinking about this, I realised that what I've suggested isn't strictly legal - in a left-hand circuit, you'd need to make a right turn to join the base leg. So, strictly speaking, you'd need to join base leg outside the ATZ. However, I don't think anyone is going to worry about this too much - the 45-degree join that our American friends seem so fond of will break this rule every time you join a circuit (sorry, pattern!) ]. .. .FFF. .---------. . . . <small>[ 21 March 2002, 10:04: Message edited by: FlyingForFun ]</small>