The Sandman - you beat me to it - thanks. If dontdoit and dogma are actually Professional Aviators I never want to fly with them on the days I don't have a share in my own destiny. Egos like that should have been flushed out by the CRM process years ago. I suspect, if real, that they spend a significant time of their airborne lives only 'one more hole in the cheese' away from being a smoking pile.