think it's fair to say that very few people jump of a seniority list because they can't get the leave they wish (for being to junior)
Depends on how refined your seniority list is and how it is used. In my airline leave is distributed on a points basis, so if you are junior you get a fair shot at a choice of leave dates.
there are plenty of examples where junior F/Os have left an airline to get a command elsewhere.
Well, if the time to command is long, it tends to mean the airline is big and not expanding. People don't wait for 10 years to get a command in an airline with bad terms and conditions........
You will always get guys who leave for an early command if they perceive the grass to be greener. Equally you could probably argue that those continually passed over in a system without a seniority list will probably look to leave to get a command. So the difference is?
in reality a command selection board will not look at all applicants as they have plenty of suitable applicants within the most senior pilots.
Not sure I understand where you are coming from there. With a seniority system they will look at you in seniority order, which is fair and transparent. If someone doesn't meet the required standard they look at the next one down and so on. If you 'apply' for a command in 1 year with the likes of BA you won't be senior enough to get looked at even if you are good enough. What's unfair about that when there are several hundred (if not thousand!) equally suitable but more senior applicants to you? What if you had 'done your time' and some young buck applied and was given a shot ahead of you? You'd be upset that it was unfair then!
If you don't like the seniority system, leave and join an airline without one and 'hope' your talents are rewarded with an early command, but if they aren't don't bitch about being passed over!!!!!
Maybe he possess skills and willingness to after achieving command move on to line training or has previous experience of such work. With most seniority systems you couldn't promote this individual.
Agreed. What is to say that the hundreds in front of this individual don't have the talents to become trainers when promoted? That is the reality in a career airline with a big seniority list. Like I said before, when you join the process is transparent. If you don't like it go to an airline without a list. I could use BA as an example where training positions aren't handed out based on seniority, but on talent. They have F/Os who are trainers. My airline don't have F/Os as TRE/TRI or Line Trainers, but they do have GTPs who are F/Os. All training positions are filled through application and suitability, not based on seniority.
In order to advance in a company a commands may be needed and it is a bit of a bottle-neck with seniority system.
Depends what you mean by 'advance', some may see base and type as more important than command. That is certainly true in my airline where many, many F/Os with the seniority refused the command opportunity on a 737 because they didn't want the lifestyle change moving off the 'beach fleet'. Their choice. The seniority system protects them and (taking a gamble on future fleet structure) they are happy to wait for their seniority position to be considered for the 'big jet' command.
So no system is perfect and certainly a seniority system should not be used for everything within an airline such as rostering, leave, longhaul trips etc etc so that the most junior person isn't shafted on all fronts, but as far as commands go, it is a fair way of ordering for command selection suitability.
My main objection is that it's easy to get in the thinking that it's "your" slot and being upset when a more junior pilot gets promoted, something I don't think was the original idea!
It's never 'your slot' for a command, it is 'your slot' to be looked at for suitability, so if you view it that way then you are deluding yourself and probably demonstrating a lack of command suitability! If you keep getting crap results in the sim and your slot is approaching then you are again deluding yourself and will not get past the selection stage. If you think that all you need to do is just wait for the command to turn up then you are again wrong and are obviously unsuitable! I don't see the argument I am afraid. I don't know of any seniority based airline who say "just wait for your number to come up and you will have a command".
If someone is really good they should be able to accelerate their career (in my opinion) without getting viewed as a brown noser by other pilots.
They can, they can go to an airline without seniority and take their chances. If they don't like the system then they shouldn't accept the job offer. It's not rocket science!
Your example is truly hypothetical and I think you will find there are many, many pilots in seniority based airlines who meet the criteria you describe, so it is not an issue. However, many talented individuals go into management roles where they are purely selected on suitability, not seniority. I was interviewed for my current employer 5 years ago by an F/O, who was a Base Pilot Manager. He did 14 years as an F/O due to seniority, but became a captain whilst studying for his Masters' Degree in Air Transport Management (think) and became Chief Pilot about a year later, then Head of Training before moving on to a certain big Orange carrier.............
No system is perfect, but I haven't heard any alternatives on here that sound better and protect 'the majority' of pilots within an airline.
PP