PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - AAIB initial report out on BA B777 crash at LHR
Old 20th Jan 2008, 08:29
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Giant Bird
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Melbourne
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Non Technical Issues

I believe that there is benefit in discussing some issues which are not dependant on the technical forensic examination.
Here is a crash where everyone survived, but where luck played a big element. A difference in only seconds or a few hundred metres and there could have been total aircraft break-up and fire. The first objective is to avoid crashes the second is to make sure as few as possible are injured. What can we learn about the second objective from this crash? This post is not an exercise to point the finger, it is an exercise to discuss and learn.
Brace Instruction
Passengers are conditioned to believe that they will be instructed to go to the brace position when necessary. I think that there was good reason for passengers to be in the brace position during this crash, however no such instruction seems to be given by the flight deck or cabin crew. It seems that the SFO was handling, the Captain was trouble shooting and we have no information on what the FO was doing. I would expect that most of the cabin crew located near windows would have enough general flying experience and specific LHR approach experience to know something very abnormal and potentially dangerous was occurring in the last 30 secs of flight.
·Should the captain have taken a few seconds away from his checking to at least flash the seat belt sign to confirm to the cabin crew that any preliminary suspicions they had that things were serious were correct?
·In the absence of any communication from the flight deck, should the cabin crew have taken the initiative to instruct the passengers to the brace position?
·Does the FO in the jump seat have any ability to communicate to the cabin crew the need to get the passengers into the brace position?
·If the FO could not communicate himself should he have suggested to the Captain that he should do it?
If the answers to the above questions are no, then some other changes should be seriously debated as industry norms.
1.Passengers told to go brace instruction if instructed or if they believe that landing is abnormal. With the instruction on the seat pocket card “Any embarrassment at unnecessary brace position will be short lived, death is permanent”
2.Fit all seats with combination lap-harness belts, with passengers instructed to fit the harness portion during take-off and landing.
3.Some other change.
Evacuation
From what I have read it seems that seconds are vital in post crash evacuation. There was no fire in this case, but there could well have been. In past accidents it appears that indecision or tardiness on their own part or the part of others have cost passengers their lives, sometime by only ten seconds. Reports suggest that in this instance the flight deck never gave the order to evacuate, some passengers realising that there had been a crash and there was danger of fire headed for the exits without being instructed to do so They were told to return to their seats and sit back down. Subsequently the cabin crew commenced an evacuation.
If this information is true, I suggest that there needs to be a discussion;
·Why with three pilots on the flight deck, did not one of them initiate the order to evacuate?
·How appropriate is it that passengers end up initiating evacuation before the cabin crew?
·How appropriate is it, for the cabin crew to order passengers attempting to evacuate a plane highly likely to catch fire to return to their seats?
I repeat that I am not trying to criticise anyone, I am trying to open serious debate about some important air safety issues which deserve discussion, and which I hope will get extensive coverage in the final crash investigation report. Crashes will happen; let’s not rely on luck for high survival rates.

Last edited by Giant Bird; 20th Jan 2008 at 08:37. Reason: Spelling
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