PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Close air support at its finest, from the squaddie's perspective
Old 14th Jan 2008, 22:21
  #53 (permalink)  
Magic Mushroom
 
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Excellent!! More priceless drivel from simple-minded. I really do wish his care home would ensure he stays on his combat flight sim game rather than spouting more rubbish! Still, he is as ever amusing.

You need 30mm to have big enough explosive rounds to effectively wipe out ground personnel dodging between buildings in urban areas.
I guess that'll be why the F-15, F-16, FA-18 and AV-8B all have cannons with calibres less than 30mm. They seem to do okay in the role although the F-15 and F-16 cannons are not optimised for A-G use. As for strafing people 'dodging between buildings'!!!!!

Yes, absolutely you need PGMs.
Not necessarily. One of the most effective weapons in Afghanistan is the CRV-7 rocket and 540lb dumb bombs. Other nations, including the US have also used non-PGMs and their use can sometimes enable more rapid engagements. This is especially the case with cluster munitions and it’s a shame we’re dispensing with them now (if you’ll excuse the pun). Modern weapons computers also allow dumb accuracies on a par with some PGMs when used in specific profiles.

Archimedes is correct in stating that not all US missiles have laser guidance.

UK currently does not have a good CAS platform. The Typhoon is too precious, the Hawk is too light and the Tornado does not have all-weather loiter and survelliance capabilities.
Well, the GR9 seems to be doing pretty well in Afghanistan, as does the GR4 in Iraq (in all weathers). Indeed, both have a better ISTAR and targeting pod capability than most US assets, a weakness which the US jets are only just getting sorted. Both use the UK EPW weapon series which is more flexible than the separate GPS and laser guided weapon variants of US weapons. I do however acknowledge that the smaller yield of some US weapons is an advantage in many urban or 'danger close' scenarios. The cannon on the GR4 is also optimised for A-G use and it has consistently delivered extremely accurate strafe on ops when required.

Oh, and Typhoon will be deployed on ops in the CAS role by the end of the year and in the work up exercises it's conducted with Army FACs, it has won over many doubters.

...your assertions of American trigger-happiness and lack of IFF is completely wrong.
Unfortunately S-M, evidence does not support this. As an AWACer my experience from Bosnia, Kosovo, Afghanistan and Iraq is that there is a major mind set difference between US aircrew and others. Obviously, the vast majority are professional, but a far greater proportion of US aircrew do seem to have less regard for RoE and CDE than the majority of other nations.

Even allowing for the greater numbers of US personnel involved on ops, the US track record in this respect is not impressive. As a starter for 10:

Gulf ops (USS Vincennes v Airbus).

GW1 (A-10 v Warrior).

Northern NFZ (AWACS/F-15C v UH-60 x 2).

Kosovo (F-16/A-10 v civilian convoys (despite a Brit GR7 having specifically told the F-16 AFAC that they were refugees and refusing to drop)). I won't mention the B-2 incident as I have never believed that to be accidental and if it was, it was a targets cock up rather than an aircrew one.

Afghanistan (numerous border busts with weapons as well as the infamous F-16 v Canadian Inf incident (possibly the worst example of criminal negligence and poor aircrew discipline since WWII. Those guys should have been imprisoned for manslaughter)).

GW2 (A-10 v Warrior. Patriot v GR4).

There is most certainly a greater willingness to use US brawn rather than US brain in many scenarios. Indeed, it could be argued that this is a trait which many enemies have exploited (and continue to exploit) over the years in Korea, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan.

I reiterate that the vast majority of US aircrew are professional and this can be admired...but then again many in the US admire the chaotic evacuation of Saigon too!

Regards,
MM

Last edited by Magic Mushroom; 14th Jan 2008 at 22:37.
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