Roc - First of all, I'm not looking for support - you might be, but I'm
not as in, I've got my point of view, and you've got yours - after all it's democracy (warts and all) right ?!
Nb. Before you slate me for saying the above, it's not being un-patriotic, it's not being subversive, moreover in all of my above postings I'm more interested in raising the consciousness of our thoughts and actions. E.g. just a few hundred years ago here in the UK it used to be thought that burning of folks at the stake for Heresy was a 'just punishment', but we've since moved onwards to no longer believe that this is appropriate; well, at least some of us have.
Now with respect to being yellow, I imagine that we're talking about the same shade of yellow that we here in the UK call those USA based IRA sympathisers who've, for years, been bank-rolling the IRA terrorists (well that's how we see them in the UK - of course they see themselves as 'freedom fighters') in their 'war' against the 'imperialists' of the UK - e.g. what about some of those obscene (in UK eyes) IRA contingents present in many a USA St.Patricks day parade ? ; and one might say that it's with some satisfaction (and dare I say it, in that it's probably as a direct result of Sept 11th, that many within the USA having now had a taste of what it's like to be on the receiving end of such sudden and murderous outrage, e.g. of the kind which we in the Europe have been suffering for years) that the cash flow to the IRA Terrorist's has seemingly dried up; indeed to such an extent that it seems to be tipping the IRA's balance towards 'Jaw, not War' - let's hope so !
In any event the fact that, as you wrote,
whatever the mission was of that B-52 it was undoubtedly a military target. Said target was ringed with AAA weaponry, SAM sites, and other military defences. The B-52 pilots were therefore flying into a combat zone, knowing they would be targeted by said defences, therefore their actions, flying into the face of danger can be called Heroic, Brave, dedicated... and yet within that said same target they knowingly bombed civilians (i.e. you yourself used the phrase 'ringed' - well just what did you think was in the middle ?) - see the picture above - makes it all the more obscene, indeed to the extent that your so called, and pompous, heroism disgusts me !
Imho, flying at high altitude, opening the bomb doors, and dropping your 'dumb' bombs on to your (who knows what) target, is just NOT the same as looking the person / child in the eye and killing / maiming them !
E.g. Would the self same pilot willingly pour Napalm over children if he/she was on the ground and facing them ? Me thinks not; which sort of proves that, SAM's aside, with the luxury of several miles of air between you and your 'target', it's surely (obviously) a lot easier to do. Plus, much like those terrorists of Sept 11th, you are of course, "just following ze orders !" which, palatable or not, is also what the guards at Aushwitz, Buchenwald, Belsen, etc, said in their defence.
Also, when you write 'the fact that the young girl was caught in the middle of this was unfortunate' (of course what she has since done with her life in no way sanctions what was done to her way back when by a USA bomber crew), is that the same as the military euphemism for 'collateral damage' ? because one can be certain that this is the exact same rationale that OBL uses to justify his ends - as indeed as do the IRA, UDA, ETA, (to name but some, e.g. see:
http://www.terrorism.net/groups/ - it's amazing what you can find on the net ! ).
I.e. I'm sure that you'd feel just fine-and-dandy about it if it was your child / sibling who was assaulted as such (e.g. limbs blown off, blinded, killed), and you'd accordingly simply turn the other cheek, forgive and forget, etc (queue the Lords Prayer), e.g. what about that young boy (Muhammad Al Durah, 12yrs)
who was shot dead / murdered whilst sheltering, terrified, behind his father who was trying to shield him after they became caught under Israeli fire near Netzarim in the Gaza Strip (and whose murder was subsequently reported by many a USA based network as 'caught in cross-fire - yeah, right ! - e.g. that's not how the French media reported it), i.e. what would you do if you were his father / brother / uncle ?
E.g. Let's remind ourselves:
And don’t kid yourself, the above is a direct result of what Western foreign policy can do (when you see the big picture, et al).
Now don't get me wrong, I'm no pacifist, i.e. If you harmed just one hair of any of MY children's heads then I'd hunt you down and kill you like the scum that you are ! (nb. I'm writing that as a turn of phrase, i.e. it's not aimed at anybody personally) as I'm sure that you would me, in the reciprocal position - and accordingly one can surely see how conflicts both start and promulgate.
So, what's to do ?
[ 25 November 2001: Message edited by: 5by5 ]