I was just about to wax lyrical when the PC flipped - either way I think I was going to go along the lines of .......why not go Junglie then you will be able to dredge around v low and slow without the option to pull up and do it any other way. All very hairy chested, but not the only way of doing business. Of course it's easier down low and that's what needs pushing for but don't just move the goalposts and send the frightened schoolboys out to do it! "Red sky at night - send the Duty Crew night flying" pip pip