Flybe - Air NZ comparo
quote-alangirvan: Is that a by-product of the aircraft types, their modus operandi or of the mismanagement of Saab and J.41 operators ?
>>> According to my records, there were 63 Saab 2000 and 100 J41's built. The Saab could have been brilliant but they tried to re-invent too many things. The J41 likewise was great but - among other things - suffered from '1970's Jaguar XJS' syndrome with electricals. Plus it's a noisy beggar - even five blades aint going to quieten down a big Garrett!
quote-alangirvan: Flybe has made interesting use of their Q400s. They do operate some long stages, often when they are the only operator on the sector, but sometimes they do use turboprops against jets operated by BA.
>>> Air NZ is the only operator on a number of routes.
Would a pax take an Air NZ Q400 over a Qantas jet on say WN-CH? Of course, if it meant a hassle-free onward connection or a really cheap airfare (though this is perhaps open for debate and doubt!!).
There are examples currently of operators worldwide looking at, or actually backing out of, using jets on routes and replacing them with props, even when up against competitors still using jets.
Its all about $'s
quote-alangirvan: The types operated by flybe now are much bigger than the Saabs and J41s, and it difficult to say that flybe's experience would mean anything for a New Zealand operator.
>>> Like Flybe, Mount Cook Airline was once a 44 seat prop operator that grew into a 70 seat prop operator. Difference is MCA may or may not add jets. Though MCA did 'technically' operate 146's, and 737's for a time! 
quote-al angirvan: Flybe have had years when they struggled - they compete against the big airlines, and against the LCCs who enter their markets. According to their website they have turned around this year.
>> Yes they did for years. They competed their butts off against the oppo, but now are doing very well! They are more LCC than full service, but Air NZ has proven they too can go LCC(ish) with deals on airfares. This is probably the part of the model that is the interesting 'could do' for Air NZ.
quote-alangirvan: For an operator is this country to learn from flybe, they would have to be planning to compete against a well established major operator, and they have to make money out of predominantly regional routes.
>>> Air NZ - the established operator - does/will be competing with itself. There are routes that Eagle once did, that now have Q300's serving them. If the ERJ doesn't work, then there's always a prop! Or, vice-versa. Air NZ has realised the best way to keep them on the ball is to have the separate companies on the edge.
Though Air NZ HQ could easily meld things together again, a-la Zeal, should the need arise!!
quote-alangirvan: It might be said that the 146 was the wrong type for an airline that was trying to re invent itself as a low cost carrier.
>>> 146 is the wrong type full stop!
quote-alangirvan: Flybe does some things that LCCs do - it makes you pay a fee to check in your bags - imagine the howls here when somebody tries to introduce that.
>>> NZ travellers would happily pay a fee to check bags, if it meant that airfares were reduced by a hefty amount. It wasn't that long ago that Air NZ Link pax were carrying there own bags to the plane!
We're a society that is used to paying for things - though the hefty discounts don't often apply! 
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A319 will never happen. The extra cost of ground crewing/baggage handling will see to that. Southwest has proven that the 737 can be turned in 15-20 minutes due ease of access to toilets/baggage. Plus it’s a junky damn thing! And don't even mention the A318!
Boeing was/is part owners/tied up with Bombardier - well deHavilland Canada. They owned Shorts too if memory serves well. They will not allow anymore Airbus in ANZ livery.
The Boing/Bomba tie up is the reason why we have Q300's in the sky instead of ATR42's. Boing came in with a wheely-deal on the re-fit of 747, 777 introduction and 787 options, and basically got production cranked up for us.
Its spurned orders too, since a number of airlines are using the Air NS Q300 layout.
Though we got the base model -Q311, not the Q315!
Over/Out
PS: A factor that could play against Q400 is its ridiculously large motors compared with ATR72. 5000 v 2475shp to haul the same number of pax. Plus the Q400's TBO aint flash. If run all "girly like" - as will happen in service, remember the Saabs when introduced!!! - they'll fair okay(ish).
Last edited by 1279shp; 16th Dec 2007 at 07:30.