BEagle has an interesting point. What did the pilots think they were getting and what did the controller think he was giving? The bottom line is, if you don't know the terms of your 'contract' you may well find yourself in trouble. . .. .CM, the military also have rules about RAS and Safety Altitude/Radar Vector Chart. These were in force way before this incident.. .. .Scud U. Can you confirm which part of the AFA the controller is being charged under?. . . . <small>[ 15 March 2002, 17:47: Message edited by: Whipping Boy's SATCO ]</small>