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Old 5th Oct 2007, 02:57
  #136 (permalink)  
punkalouver
 
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Concerning turning the transponder to TA after an engine failure...

Originally posted by ATC Watcher
This is new to me, and a bit surprising coming from you
Why are you surprised. This is our SOP and the SOP of many airlines if not most. Perhaps your training department felt it was not necessary to inform you of this.

Originally posted by ATC Watcher
That aside , I find it a pity that you do not want to engage in the debate. The point many of us have ( and I am not working for or with PBL) is that the system is still far from perfect and even if you follow the rules , it will not protect you at all times. The GOL and DHL crew if they were still alive would sadly confirm this.
The sense reversal logic currently does not work and could induce a collision while trying to prevent one.
The interaction between human-ATC and automation -TCAS is still unclear for many , especially when ATC acts before the RA, and following the RA will mean acting against the current ATC clearance.
For those 2 reasons alone, following the RA is no guarantee that a collision will be prevented, because it needs 2 willing partners and you do not know what the other is doing.
Following your argumentation , would you be for the coupling of TCAS to the auto-pilot ? That would solve many problems wouldn't it ?
Hmmm, I do see that you are from Germany as well. Anyways, I don't see the point of debating any more because I really have nothing more to add to what I have already said several times(Same with the others in my opinion). The thread is is just going on and on with myself and PBL and his coworkers(or aliases) repeating the same thing in different words. We have made our points.

You are absolutely right that you are not protected at all times, TCAS is not perfect and could induce a collision and I have never denied that. However the odds are in favour of you to FOLLOW THE RA.(See how I am repeating myself again).

The Gol accident involved non-functioning equipment on one the aircraft. I don't think it proved anything in terms of the whole TCAS design except what we already know; that won't provide any protection from an aircraft with no operating transponder whether a Piper Cub or a high level jet.

No opinion on autopilot coupling as I haven't heard arguements for and against this idea.

Originally posted by joernstu
I cannot decide, what kind of action would induce the lowest risk - following an RA, not following an RA or flying without TCAS at all as the basis for my risk evaluation would be episodes
Fortunately for us, you are not flying an airliner and I suspect you would be demoted or worse if you followed through on this opinion in such a scenario.
Originally posted by joernstu
I can't remember advising anyone not to follow a RA, but surely you will prove me wrong?
bsieker(one of your like minded coworkers) in effect said so in my opinion in post #101 when he said the Tupolev crew's decision was rational which started this whole debate on the last two pages. And you strongly hint at it right after you ask me to prove you wrong by saying...

I cannot decide, what kind of action would induce the lowest risk - following an RA, not following an RA

Last edited by punkalouver; 9th Dec 2007 at 23:17.
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