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Old 2nd Oct 2007, 05:12
  #2616 (permalink)  
RWA
 
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A few points to answer yours, electricjetjock, and possibly show more clearly where we're coming from (some of us, anyway).

Originally Posted by electricjetjock
radical thought there close the thrust levers to stop!
The pilot flying left the thrust lever in the CLB detent NOT the aircraft or designers.
That's maybe 80% probable, but not certain. All we know is that the FDR recorded the lever as being in CLB.

Try as I might, I've never been able to fully to understand AB's various 'modes' - but I gather that one possiblilty is that (assuming the lever was misplaced) it ends up with a thrust lock and seeks to maintain the last commanded setting (which would presumably have been approach speed of say 140 knots). Since it would presumably be trying to do that with only one engine, it would (again presumably) have wound it up quite high.

I believe that another possibility is that the systems would have considered any setting above 'Idle' as being the next detent up (i.e. CLB).

The possibilities are that the pilot may indeed have left the lever in CLB; or he may have pulled it back to near 'Idle', but not AT 'Idle'; or he may have knocked it forward while reaching over it to get hold of and lift the reverser latch on No. 1.

Originally Posted by electricjetjock
He also did not immediately apply full manual braking when autobrake failed.
I believe that according to the FDR, the pilot(s)' first step was to recycle the spoiler switch. That's pretty strong evidence that (having got reverse thrust) they thought that they had a spoiler malfunction. As to immediate braking, you'll know better than I - but my understanding is that applying the brakes at 140 knots would have been next to useless (and could very well have caused more problems than it solved).

Originally Posted by electricjock
Were these mistakes made due to poor training of this pilot or poor airmanship.
That's the least understandable feature of all. The PF was a senior captain with over 10,000 hours, and a training pilot at that.

Originally Posted by electricjetjock
Yes we are all hoping an accident like this will not happen again but the main causes at the moment appear to be pilot induced so we should all be saying " I HAVE LEARNT ABOUT FLYING FROM THIS" I do not want to make those mistakes!!!
Agree entirely about that. But only as far as it goes - which isn't very far. Sure it's the duty of all concerned to learn from this accident - but that includes the designers. For some reason (probably basically an ergonomic one) around four A320 pilots appear to have made the same mistake; and, more important, not REALISED their mistake until it was too late.

So is it your view that all of us (pilots, designers, investigators, enthusiasts, the general public) should just leave everything as it is, and just HOPE that the same thing doesn't happen yet again - possibly with equally serious results?

If so, I for one can't possibly agree with you.

Last edited by RWA; 2nd Oct 2007 at 05:28.
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