PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - TAM A320 crash at Congonhas, Brazil
View Single Post
Old 10th Sep 2007, 10:30
  #2185 (permalink)  
FlightDetent

Only half a speed-brake
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Commuting not home
Age: 46
Posts: 4,321
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by RWA
So, as I see it, even if the wheels are down, the ONLY way to reduce thrust on a given engine to ‘idle,’ and keep it there, is to retard the lever all the way to the ‘idle’ stop?
Exactly. In fact, by reatarding TL to "idle", you will initially reduce the "dead-band" between TL position and actual thrust setting, then limit the autothrust commanded N1 setting to TL position and when at idle the autothrust will disconnect. Unless you do so, A/THR will attempt to maintain speed indefinitely. KILL-THE-THRUST is normal operation at every single landing. There is no way any A320 pilot could attempt and succeed landing other way around.
Originally Posted by RWA
Is it even barely possibly that the pilot at CGH didn’t know this, or didn’t recall the point under the pressures of landing on a short wet runway with only one operating reverser? And therefore, in his own mind, used the buttons to order ‘autothrust disconnect’ and then interpreted that as ‘finished with engines,’ and concentrated only on making sure that he got hold of the correct lever for the operating reverser and moved it into ‘max. reverse’ as soon as possible?
The buttons are not used and not needed in normal operations - this landing was a normal operation, albeit demanding and with little room for error. You do not need buttons to disconnect A/THR for landing, you do not need them to disconnect A/THR to salvage a too high flare, you do not need them when little extra thrust is required. You do not need them for go around thrust. The system is a complicated piece of engineering because it is designed to be operationally VERY simple.

The way you finish with the engines, is you put them in idle. The grip witnessed on the video makes a lot more sense on different autothrust designs. n.b: technically speaking. I am nowhere near being authorized for Madeira landings - definitely no secondguessing here.

If metal gets bent and people hurt, there are lesson to be learned. Personally I feel lost in here, there's nothing to grasp, I cannot come up with anyting to change that would really had made a difference.
FlightDetent is offline