Hi Ashling:
I guess you and I are just failing to communicate. I have gone back and re-read my original post, with particular scrutiny directed to how I used the term “attitude.” I’ll quote below the way I defined “level flight attitude,” the areas with which I think you had an “issue.” Here is what I said in my original post:
Originally Posted by AirRabbit
…the flare is pulling back on the elevator controls to raise the nose (increase the pitch attitude) to “break” or “reduce” the rate of descent prior to touchdown. But, where is it you want the nose to go? Can you put it anywhere? No, certainly not. Well, if that’s true, then you want it to go to some specific spot. What is that spot? It is whatever attitude that is the “level flight” attitude for that airplane, in that configuration, and at that airspeed. What airspeed? The airspeed you have upon completing the flare.
…and here is what I said later on in that same posting…
Originally Posted by AirRabbit
Airplanes are designed, for the greater part, to be landed from the level flight attitude; and by that I mean the attitude that would produce level flight at the airspeed achieved at the end of the flare, the existing GW, and the existing configuration.
I don’t see any change from my original reference to “attitude” in any of my subsequent references to that term. As I read your concerns, in your rebuttal post you said, and, again, I’ll quote…
Originally Posted by Ashling
You are NOT trying to find a level attitude. When you flare you are merely slowing the rate of descent.
You do NOT allow the airplane to float and certainly not for 3 seconds.
Boeing are very clear on both these points and it is a boeing we are talking about. That said its true for any aircraft.
Irrespective of the runway available if you keep raising the nose to prevent the aircraft descending you will bang the tail before you stall on.
To flare the NG you start at about 15' then increase pitch attitude by 2-3 degrees. After you initiate the flare smoothly retard the thrust levers to idle aiming for idle as the wheels touchdown. Make small pitch adjustments after the flare to maintain the desired descent rate to the runway.
Because of what you said in your 6th sentence (“Irrespective of the runway available if you keep raising the nose to prevent the aircraft descending you will bang the tail before you stall on.”), I was of the opinion that you misunderstood what I had said. Please note,
nowhere have I said that once achieving the “level flight attitude” (the “landing attitude”) the pilot was to continue to raise the pitch attitude; and, in fact, I have determinedly said that the pilot was to
maintain that level flight attitude (the “landing attitude”) through the touchdown.
In my attempt to clarify this position further, I have said that the “level flight attitude” (the “landing attitude”) I was describing would only maintain level flight
if power were added to maintain that airspeed … which, of course, you would not do. The only other way to maintain level flight at that time would be to increase the pitch attitude … and that is what I have said should
not be done.
I am sorry, Ashling. I just don’t see where you have, as you say, “demonstrated” that my description is “wrong.” You say that that diagram that
chksix provided is wrong. You also said that I had indicated that I had access to that manual. Well, I checked, and I no longer have the manual I thought I still had – my excuse is that if I kept all the manuals I once had I’d need a larger place to live. Sorry. But my comment stands as stated. I
DO read and comply with the FCTM and FCOM for any airplane I fly – and I was responding to what I thought was your allegation that I had not done so. As for that diagram being in error – it seems to be correct from my memory – and, with respect, you’d have to take up that accusation with
chksix. However, I’m quite sure that he copied that page from an “NG” manual since I’m reasonably sure that he didn’t make it up himself.
You say that I “gave the wrong attitude” in my postings and then “hung so much on it” that you’ve chased the error. I’m not sure what attitude you’re referencing. The only “attitude” I’ve described is the attitude that would produce level flight for the airplane in the existing configuration, gross weight, and airspeed reached at the end of the flare. That attitude is the attitude from which the landing should be made – the landing attitude. I have also provided 2 separate approximations – one for a speed range and one for a pitch range – depending on gross weight. The speed range, again, is 1.1 to 1.2 times Vstall, where Vref is 1.3 times Vstall. The pitch range, again, is 3 to 6 degrees of pitch. The attitude I’m describing (the “level flight attitude,” the “landing attitude”) is the attitude that would provide level flight, presuming one had sufficient power to maintain the 1.1 to 1.2 times Vstall airspeed (the airspeed reached at the end of the flare) while at a constant pitch attitude of between 3 and 6 degrees, depending on the existing gross weight. Perhaps we would do well to recall that we’re discussing an airplane with full landing flaps operating within ground effect.
One last thing, regarding my tendency to provide very long replies to what some think are easy, direct, simple questions. In my view, there are 3 types of instructors: The perfect one, who provides the perfect amount of information in a perfect way; the one who provides not quite enough information for the pilot to understand what is going on; and the one who provides more information than is necessary for the pilot to understand what is going on. I recognized, quite a long time ago that I am far from perfect. In that I am not perfect, and know it, I’ll let you guess as to which of the other 2 possibilities I would rather plead guilty.