oneworld22, come now, don't start acting the voice of moderation your opening line was to call us head bangers you were deliberately trying to provoke the reaction you got. You are aghast at a union thinking it has jurisdiction over foreign T&C's and yet had you bothered to get informed you might have realized we have just such an agreement. IALPA is and has always been ready to negotiate a new deal however DM and his team have decided to bypass all that. Yes we are share holders which should show you how seriously we take this move by DM. Perhaps you might now stop calling us names and if you are indeed a aviation consultant bring something new and constructive to this discussion.