PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Land or Go Around?
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Old 14th Jul 2007, 21:28
  #49 (permalink)  
PK-KAR
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
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SuddenWinds,
Dun worry mate, I enjoy this discussion, it explores the possibilities of when one has to go by something else than the book... My answers does not mean that one has to go by those answers... as some have said here, it all depends on the situation on that day... The answers, ranging from the right to the wrong, are very useful for one to expand oneself and start thinking... coz when the scenario happens, they'd be better prepared. However, the regs are regs. Unless for safety reasons beyond doubt, the regs are there for a reason...

1. We're not killing you for misidentifying the airline... Blind acceptance of the procedures is not wise, one should know the logic behind why emergency procedures are made as such. Procedures are there so you take the right actions... if the procedures are wrong, it's not your fault, misidentifying or not carrying out the right procedure in response to the emergency, IS.

2. Sorry, but I am disappointed in "where you just turn the motion off" part of that sentence.

Different languages? You're in lost comms, the lingo don't matter anymore... the lost comms procedure for that airport/tma/fir are written in their lingo AND English...

Unfamiliar place? You got the approach chart? Follow it.

No extra fuel? Low on fuel? Why didn't you declare it beforehand? As said by 4PWs, you do not wait until you're on a 2NM final to declare you're low on fuel (unless your tanks or fuel lines suddenly develop major leak at a 2NM final)... EFOBs on the FMC, fuel tank and fuel flow gauges, and reference fuel consumption tables are there for a reason... to prevent you from being in this situation without knowing about the dire situation beforehand! You calculate your landing weight to get your approach speed right? Landing weight - dry weight = fuel on board...

Good scores in the sim, and it keeps you alive.

3. "Mine is "stick to the rules, go around if you canīt get a clearance, but if thereīs a safety concern involved with that go around, landing on a visibly clear runway," means you're in an emergency and not able to contact the tower. This is different from a "2NM tower, visual with the runway, call the tower for clearance and you hear nothing." With no emergency, judgement calls for a mandatory go-around.

Some examples of that are..untrained ATC personnel, lack of tower lights !!!, lack of radar, lack of suitable alternate airports with sevices nearby, and political issues. In general Iīd go around but I wouldnīt blindly go around without also considering the problems associated with that.
Untrained ATC personnel? I would go around! If they're as bad as I think you're saying, I'd be having a higher risk of running into something on the runway with or without clearance than going around. On a landing roll, the options to avoid something in your way is more limited than in the air (Single point entry/exit airports and mountains exempted).

Lack of tower lights still means go around, and come back in under a lost comms.

Lack of radar again, is a non-issue, unless the traffic is overflowing and you get pilots regularly not obeying ATC instructions... but then, again, it's easier to safely avoid another plane in the air than a stationary goat on the runway while you're on a landing roll!

Lack of suitable alternate airports = you should land with ample fuel to do the go around and come back in under lost comms. Do you guys have a rule for fuel requirements for "destination without a suitable alternate" ?

Political issues? What kind? The ones that will shoot your plane if you go around or the ones that will yield troops visiting your plane if you land without a landing clearance? Or where mobs will invade the ramp when they know you're coming if you do make a go-around? (If the last one, then yeah, I wouldn't go around... coz in such a situation, the regs are just a formality).

A few months ago here, 1 jet was on very short finals, got another one about 5 miles behind, and another one heading to the IAF... called the tower, nothing, 1st jet went around, called tower again, no response, each aircraft transmitted blindly stating their intentions. 1st and 2nd plane did their own separation, 3rd airplane went in under lost comms. A 4th, diverted. Visibility was 8000m, though a nice thundery cloud was coming towards the field, albeit a go-around would still be away from the cloud.

What happened? The airport lost power and the emergency gens couldn't get started.

Another case, a lightning strike hit the airport's power supply, killed all beacons, lights radios at the airport. What happened? the guy on finals and everyone else diverted.

In both cases, the crew of all the aircraft followed the regs correctly.

PK-KAR
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