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Old 14th Jul 2007, 03:33
  #42 (permalink)  
sudden Winds
 
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4PWs,
I generally do support the idea of going around, especially if you can´t confirm the the rwy is clear and you suspect a temporary loss of comm scenario.....however, there are some circumstances where going around could complicate things as well.
You mentioned that there seem to be 2 lines of thought here. Those who consider the safety and legal aspect of landing without a clearance and those who also consider the problems related to going around. I´ll get back to this in a few minutes.

As I said before, you observe this difference and consider it a natural thing called subjectivity and at the same time make your poing very clear that there can´t be any subjectivities in a situation like the one described. I have a slightly different name for what you call subjectivity. it´s JUDGEMENT. The way I see it you can´t just say "I´ll go around under pretty much every conceivable scenario if I can´t get the clearance I need". I am not going to get in the technical stuff just now. What I am trying to say is that, maybe landing without a clearance is for you as dangerous as thinking in absolutes is for me....especially in aviation. I am perfectly aware that certain things are not open to discussion. Taking off with a NO GO item is a no no, going below your minimums unless in a terribly critical fuel scenario is another big no no...just to give you a few examples...but this situation is just a bit different and precisely what I was looking for when I started this thread was comments, experiences and opinions (yours included) because I am a rule follower just like you, but at the same time I understand that there are some situations where following a procedure, or a rule, may lead to disaster (remember the MD11 of a canadian airline that had smoke in the cabin and proceeded to dump fuel only to burn, lose control and crash ?, they followed the procedures).

Here comes the technical part...
What if that day (or night) your fuel status wasn´t the ideal, plus there was plenty of traffic around, plus a/c are being radar vectored to a final approach and now you go around as published and then have to fly the approach from an initial approach fix located at the outer marker...now everyone is going one direction and you´re in the opposite...I know if you´re under radar contact they´ll see you, but what if they can´t see someone else or what if they just don´t have time to divert everyone...besides, how are you going to proceed to the IAF, left turn? right turn? what if there´s no radar, mountains all around...I believe ATC expects you to go to your alternate if you go completely lost comm and can´t see a thing, rather than trying a 2nd approach without radios...at least they know what you´ve filed and they´ll keep their eyes open. ATC also expects you to get out of the system as soon as you can, and who can tell me that landing on a clear runway without a clearance is such a fault, considering that the point of absolute safety is on the ground. Taking those passengers back in the air may or may not be the safest couse of action, depending on the circumstances. Again, what if wx conditions are deteriorating and there´s a storm building up fast dead ahead. Also what if this happens after 14 hours of flight, everyone´s tired, human performance is not the same...landing without a clearance is not the same as landing when instructed not to do so, let´s not confuse that..
4PWs, once again. I greatly respect your opinion, that comes from your experience and knowledge, but it is my understanding that certain situations may dictate good judgement to be exercised with no delay, and landing without a clearance sure sounds like a terrible thing, but in the end could be just as valid as going around.

To be clear, my tendency would be to go around, but not after having analyzed the pros and cons and having used all my resources to contact them the way I can, and if I ever suspect I´ll endanger my crew and passengers by putting them back in the air inside a deaf, dumb and somehow blind aircraft, I´ll land while I can still see.

Thank you and everyone else for posting and helping me and others become better and SAFER pilots.
Regards,
SW.
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