Capt P B and Fergineer. .Apologies, I stand corrected <img src="redface.gif" border="0"> . Was relying on a memory from fifty years ago, so not surprising. <img src="smile.gif" border="0"> . .Re. the third crew member argument, however, the undoubted technical expertise of the F/E has become less relevant in aircraft systems of the 'black box' variety. . .What could be of considerable value, however, is a "Flight Deck Manager" (for want of a better term)- someone who is not actively engaged in flying the aircraft or monitoring the systems but who has the full overview of the situation and the authority to make operational decisions ( a la maritime Captains). For 99% of the time that is an unnecessary luxury and would, no doubt, promote crew friction, not to mention apoplexy amongst the 'bean-counters' Ergo.... it isn't going to happen. I say again, pity <img src="wink.gif" border="0">