No, CS, you have made your point clearly and succinctly in previous posts. I can only speak for myself when I say that I have the greatest respect for yourself and your comrades manning the thin red line while the likes of I enjoy the freedoms that you defend on our behalf. I take your point that keeping this topic going may cause distress, not only to NOK, but clearly to you and your colleagues. I would not contribute if that were the only effect, but I honestly believe that the paymasters must be made to loosen the purse strings so that what should be done will be done. Nigegilb has shown that it can be done, but it takes a lot of effort and pressure to do that. The ESF thread on this forum undoubtedly aided the success of that campaign, and a lot of the knowledge gained is surely directly applicable here. As with the Hercules tragedy, NOK directly involving themselves in such a campaign infuse it with enormous moral authority, and I commend and applaud TD for his efforts. Having left the RAF some 34 years ago I had not realised the tremendous changes that it has gone through in that time, until reading the many threads here. Many of those changes are, IMHO, for the worse and invariably due to financial strictures. So I have indeed had to wake up and smell the coffee and found it's flavour distinctly bitter. Of course I realise that much here is unrepresentative and should at best be taken with large dollops of salt, but there are some here who shine through and whom I trust. To mention but two; Nigegilb, because his actions alone are his bona fides. Tucumseh because so much of this situation was created not by the RAF but at the MOD, of which I (mercifully) have no direct experience and he has, and is prepared to share that with us and shine a light into some murky corners. If we are wise we should study what he shows us. For myself it is a privilege to post on this forum which I try not to usurp. I am sure that the great majority that post here do so sincerely and knowing the pain that is felt by those who have lost loved ones and friends. If we have but one thing in common it is surely the wish that others should be spared such pain in the future.