FG, completely understand where you are coming from. Aircrew are paid to take risks, it goes with the job. I have taken plenty and my former colleagues have had some unbelievable escapes in recent months. That said, just the other day an old friend took me by the side and thanked me, most sincerely for forcing the issue over "J" foam. He was off to Afg in a couple of days and he quietly made the point that Herc crews and crucially their families were much happier about the situation on the Herc. Someone made the point on this thread that the families of aircrew at Kinloss were unhappy about all the scaremongering. Believe me, the way to fix that unhappiness is to spend the money, invest in safety and some of the anxiety will go away. Since XV179, the Herc community suffered 2 more aircraft losses. This argument is all about preventing further loss. I have no doubt that Kinloss crews will continue to fly, that is what makes the RAF special, but the leadership must realise that taking unnecessary risk on behalf of their men, might save money but is fundamentally, immoral.