The Smiter, it all went wrong with Iraq, but I guess we all know that now.
Apologies for going off thread but failure to say no is at the heart of all this. And one option open to the likes of Torpy is to cut back on training. It is already happening and a lack of training has just been given as one of the main reasons for the puma crash. The best of a bad situation is probably to pull out of Iraq, but it will leave a hell of a mess behind.
I greatly admire General Rose, he was against the Iraq war all along, this is what he said the other day.
"General Rose has stated that there is no way the war in Iraq can be won and has called for the troops to be withdrawn.
The ex- SAS Officer said coalition forces in Iraq were facing an impossible situation.
"There is no way we are going to win the war and (we should) withdraw and accept defeat because we are going to lose on a more important level if we don't,'' he said.
Though the coalition could not simply "cut and run,'' Gen Rose said announcing a withdrawal date would help to dampen down the violence between Sunni, Shia and Kurdish factions.
"Give them a date and it is amazing how people and political parties will stop fighting each other and start working towards a peaceful transfer of power,'' he said.
Gen Rose was speaking at the annual Hay Festival of Literature and the Arts in Hay-on-Wye, on the Welsh border with England.
The retired general who has written a book on the American War of Independence, made comparisons with the 1775-1783 conflict between Britain and the Thirteen Colonies.
He said: "How was it a small and extremely determined body of insurgents, thieves and deserters could inflict such a strategic and potentially disastrous defeat on the most powerful nation in the world?
"The answer will be familiar to anybody who is looking at what is happening in Iraq today.
"Those who don't read history are condemned to repeat the mistakes of the past.''
He said the allies in Iraq should have deployed more troops and not used a conventional war strategy.
"You don't win wars by regime change but by changing attitudes,'' he said.
He said that Iraq should have been low on the priority list compared to Afghanistan, conflicts in Africa and the battle against international terrorists."