Understood Sabenaboy, hope that through the bickering that you are getting some useful stuff. You'll be glad to know that I've been in the job for "longer than 5 minutes" so do have some clout to what I say, at least I give the details and facts I know and state when I'm unsure and hope that someone will correct me if I'm wrong without getting childish about it, shame its an anomynous forum then we could settle this with a little "lake dunking"