PK-KAR
Greatly appreciate and respect your input, hope you realise there will be times we "agree to disagree" and it is not personal (although I know deep down you realise I'm actually right!
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Have to disagree about "out of the slot" Vs "unrecoverable", one calls for a re-assessment of how to safely complete the approach whilst the other dictates that the current approach can never be safely completed.
This incident is certainly a case of the latter and, based on the figures you quote even the most generous interpretation is that it was "questionable" above 1000' AGL, below 1000' AGL with a contant high speed, unconfigured and a huge sink rate it became "unquestionable."
I've had a good look at the thread in "reporting points" we have had the following suggestions/conjecture/thoughts/observations/musings from various people such as Ppruners/various investigators/reporters/government officials/ministers etc that the cause or mitigation was:
downdraft/flap failure/normal flight was OK above 1000'AGL/flap assymetry/operational and non-operational equipment on dispatch/losing of "plot"/flaps in or not in position/ high plane speed/no report to ATC of any configuration problems/airport vehicle on runway/Captain "good" Co-pilot "average or less"/absentmindedness/crew argueing or not/go-around calls or not/Captain "experienced", Co-pilot "young"/go-around call too late/"no argument" and "co-ordination between them about flight safety"/go-around asked, recommended, called for by Co-pilot/go-around call made too late.
And THEN, in the last few days, out of the blue the words "subtle incapacitation" came to the fore - a situation that will be unable to be definitively confirmed nor denied by its very nature but sit back, relax and have a laugh as various psychologists try to justify various positions using exquisite psycho-babble.
And when things start getting leaked/suggested/theorised by heavyweights or people "in the know" I always wonder whether they are trying to lead you to a path that is true or a path that deviates.
That is one of the things that confuses me about some of your posts - are you simply passing on information as relayed to yourself or are you also doing some editing to move things in certain directions?
As an example you included in one of your posts what added up to "Captain good, Co-pilot average" however the (now apparent?) CVR fact that he 3 times voiced his concerns with growing intensity greatly impresses me for an asian F/O and is worthy of note. Maybe that's just me.
The stage has been set, the company and authorities will get a slap on the wrist, the Captain will cop some but also receive sorrow for his "subtle incapacitation" and the F/O will be literally strung up by his nether regions in the town square.
And everyone (well I suppose the F/O might be inclined to disagree!), will happily celebrate an "unfortunate" situation, "well resolved!"
That's about all, reckon the topics been well covered except to say that after this incident, if the world airline industry has ANY desire to pick up their game then, in principle or similar:
- IATA, ICAO or whomever dictates that ALL airlines around the world set up a "black and white", step by step CRM pyramid within their legal Operating Manuals which lays out the required actions by ALL crew INCLUDING the stated requirement for the F/O to take over, this also enforces legal company responsibility and support for their crew members, no more crap "CRM is good for safety" single statement bull**** acceptable;
- company training must vigorously reflect the same;
- country authorities confirm in class and simulators that thje policy is being vigorously trained/enforced;
- maybe set up a central authority outside of the countries to regulate the above in a totally unbiased way (boy, watch the fur fly on THAT suggestion!!
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- give them a reasonable time frame (I'd say 3 months but others may disagree) to comply;
- those that can't/won't - remove their licences, better they (the airline) die than the passengers they purport to care for.
OK - end of imminently sensible suggestions (or rant, whichever you see fit!)
