PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - Real Men don't go around - a fatal cultural flaw.
Old 8th Apr 2007, 05:38
  #75 (permalink)  
PK-KAR
 
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Lowerlobe,
Based on information I've received to date, there were no arguments in the flight deck. The F/O questioning the Captain does not mean an argument took place.

Lokione,
They were. It's stable 500ft for visual with Garuda. From seeing the data on the flight path, it appeared that they managed to get on the slope at 500' but were way out on the speed.

Galdian,
Out of the slot or unrecoverable in this case doesn't mean much, it just means they should have done something (and with all our benefit of having hindsight of course).

Excuse my bad previous post, I've just had a look at the notes I took immediately after seeing the report yesterday... it was 250kts at 4000 & 3500, 284kts @ 3000, 272@2500, 254@2000, 232@1500, 220@1000 all the way down. (not that it doesn't change the required action much).

After hitting JOG 8DME @ 4000 at 250kts, they tried to chase DME3.5@2500 with flaps 1. I'm still waiting for info on A/P and A/T status on this segment. They overshot the equivalent of the ILS Final Approach Fix (3.5@2500) by a few hundred feet only, but ended up chasing the (visual) slope and it was flaps 5@2000. The rate of descent until they hit that glideslope was 3000fpm... they somehow followed the last few hundred feet on the slope and then the "flare" prolonged the time airborne... Even by then, the ability to stop was "academic"...

The initial report doesn't give any info on the overall descent from FL270. Sources inside the investigation and Garuda has leaked out comments from the CVR such as wind, and it has been said that the F/O did question and/or call for go-around at 3 occassions... the last being around 500' or 200' AGL.

As to partial incap, the evidence, if any, has yet to be made public. I have been told that the CVR will be checked again, to see of signs of stress and other possibilities in the Captain's voice and also of the F/O's. The "shrinks" have been called in aswell.

Whether this is fixed or not, only time will tell, but the information on partial incap and the calls for the G/A as well as the speeds and descent path were leaked weeks back. I am told the minister has tried to suppress it but the NTSC wants it opened. There's a battle going in the NTSC between those capitulating to the minister's threats, and the NTSC's senior members. It was after a reported "pressure from outside the DoT" that the minister yielded.... but that's not the end of the story yet.

PK-KAR
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