Flower
I am sorry this thread had angered you. I am not for one second saying that civil controllers are careless in the way in which you conduct your ATC. The point being made was that most Mil controllers have been involved in a situation where a civil controller has thought he has co-ordinated & the Mil controller believes traffic information has been passed. Surely this is not a good way of doing business? Co-ord needs to be unambiguous to both sides.
It would appear that a trial has taken place whereby your regulator has decided to adopt a more Mil method of co-ord. If the present civil system is acceptable why have your civil authorities elected to align it with the Military style?
There even seems to be confusion amongst the civil posters with one guy stating that FIS cannot & should not be co-ordinated against and another quoting an example whereby he requests co-ord against FIS!
Earlier on in the thread a poster was complaining that the Mil insist on noisey handovers all the time and that we eat time doing this, stick to the rules, dont think outside the box etc etc. As posting "this happened to me" tales seem to be flavour of the moment..... this morning I had been prenoted a pair of FA-20s out of a Northern Civil airfield and the unit were given a squawk & told I was happy with a freecall if clean.
A short while later the ac call me and they are under a RAS climbing to FL190 for the GAM RVC. As they are mid way throught the vale of York I notice that 10 miles behind my formation is a track on a simlair profile, I became suspicious and asked if they were in standard formation. No 10 miles apart! The civil unit prenote a formation and then frecall them over 10 miles apart with no mention of this... Factor in that they were to cross CAS and no wonder some Mil controllers insist on handovers from some civil units!
As i said at the beginning I dont think civil ATC is unsafe quite the opposite but I do feel feel ... make that know, that I have been on the receiving end of ambiguous co-ordination.
If nothing else this thread will highlight the fact that Civ & Mil co-ordination can be open to mis-interpretation.
DD