PPRuNe Forums - View Single Post - ATC and flight crew errors
View Single Post
Old 21st Mar 2007, 18:19
  #35 (permalink)  
Gonzo
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: LHR/EGLL
Age: 45
Posts: 4,392
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Lots of good discussion here.


Floydie:
GT3 comes closest to explain it but there is no justification in his reply as far as I'm concerned.
I don't think anyone could come up with a justification, only possible reasons.
'If you're not interested in what I have to say you'd better stay away'
I agree with Fly Bhoy, I can't imagine anyone at LHR saying that sort of thing, and we do have our fair share of ATCOs who do point out aircrew errors in the ways talked of here (and funnily enough, it tends to be the more senior ATCOs who do so). If you do hear an ATCO talking like that, please put a report in, or at the very least phone up the supervisor/watch manager etc.
they have by now all attended to a TRM workshop.
Not correct. Most have, not all.

Warning, generalisation coming up......

At the end of the day, it might be useful to remind ourselves that sometimes the interests of the ATCO (safety for all, and greatest overall expedition, at the expense of the expedition of individual flights) does not sit easily with the flight crew's interests (singularly ensuring their passengers (and they themselves!) are safe and again expedition for their own flight).

In that regard, we, as ATCOs do have to put up with a level (which varies greatly) of 'friction' (a la Clausewitz) from crews. This can range from "How long will it be for our stand?" to other other extreme "Ground, I know you said hold position, but if that one pushes long, and then that other one gives way to us, we can taxy here and there and be number one!!!" Certainly at LHR this is a regular occurrence. While I do not begrudge the flight crew asking me any questions, I can sometimes be too busy to give a satisfactory answer. We never get to hear the occasions where the crew decides not to ask us, because they judge it's too busy, so as ATCOs our perception can easily be that some/many/most crew are impatient so and sos only interested in their own flight and ignorant of the big picture. This can lead some/many etc ATCOs to think that any flight crew mistakes needs to be highlighted, and shoved down a peg or two.

Just my 0.02.

But at the end of the day, we do need to root it out. The last thing I'd want to happen if I was about to pilot a 747 on a 14 hour flight is ATC at my departure field having a go at me and highlighting my mistakes to everyone.
Gonzo is offline