Business Jet operator profits...or lack thereof

[oceanpilot]

Very interesting discussion and as I’m running a small aviation business here my view.
Mixing it all together everybody is right and everybody is writing b**s**t in the next sentence.

Look, this is an emotion industryRIGHT as we all love to fly
not a business: WRONG lots of people make a living with it

Guy with too much money from, let's say real estate, starts flying private
Envious ? RIGHT that this guy is flying

1. Guy likes flying private buys own jet

RIGHT this gives jobs to Cessna

1. Guy listens to his pilot and rents out the plane as the rates on the market are "great" according to his pilot

RIGHT again as everybody should listen to pilots, and this real estate guy is even very clever as he hires a pilot to fly him or with him (this he lives longer)

1. Guy starts an AOC company first or buys one to be able to lease out his aircraft and hey lets buy another aircraft!

He has to start an AOC company otherwise it would be iligal to charter out, I guess everybody knows this by now.

I have seen your questions before (not my questions) about loadfactors etc... this is not a business and no there is no money to be made...
WRONG ; again we have proof that lots of people make a living with it and from it

The only companies around that have been there for a number of years are management companies... maybe RIGHT than he should start a management company
Forget it WHYbecause you fly for NJE or the airline
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Not joining the pro and cons and how or if fractionals make money. not my business They have a big market share and pushed the industry for new jets, and got a lot of first timers into business Jet. Thanks for that.

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Well, one thing is for sure, JAROPS wiped out a lot of small companies that were just making enough to survive.
RIGHT just to much overhead to run a small business

Next sure thing (apart from a cessna...) that NetJets is lobbying at EASA/EU very hard to put more restrictions on non-AOC (company) operations. Make it more difficult and restrictive and we will ahve more business at NJE.
WRONG NJE does not need to do this, the rules are tailored to the airlines and the GA gets caught in the requirements that do not fit.

Another thing that I´m sure of is that a most operators are just to stupid to see the signs on the wall: if they keep on on their own, fighting the next small operator instead of unite, they will be driven out of the market.
WRONG not to stupid, they are all individualists otherwise they would not have started in the first place.

an extremely expensive club. I believe that personal transportation improves in a direct relationship to your wealth from foot to bike to bus to taxi to car to train to plane to yacht to private jet.
RIGHT and the top is the private jet

The desire to amortise those costs by renting out your aircraft probably means you weren't quite wealthy enough to buy it in the first place.

WRONG most business people think business even for a hobby, and I’m sure many would rent out their car if it were practical and buy a second one and ....
Wasn’t this how Mr. Avis started J

Most people who amass the sort of money needed to even consider buying and operating a jet did not achieve that status by being stupid. Even the most cursory audit would reveal that this was the easiest way to become a millionaire provided you started as a billionaire!
WRONG they are billionaires and stay that way, some exception to the rule maybe.


There are, amazingly, still folk who think they can come up with some new "formula" for making money out of corporate aviation...exempt Mr. Santulli, no one has cracked the code yet of ownership+profit.
RIGHT ownership breaks your neck if the AOC company has to carry the full investment cost of a new jet. But Mr. Santulli idea is actually managing aircraft not owning them.
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my conclusion:
BizAv charter companies are making profit but to become rich one should invest somewhere else. A lot of investors buy an aircraft and run it as a (side) business, often it is a hobby, for status, for their private transport who cares, in the end better than giving it all to the tax poeple where we all know it is wasted.
And most important it give me a great and interesting job, otherwise I would have to fly the bus the whole day long.
Last; we own one jet and the others are managed and more are coming.