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Old 23rd Feb 2007, 20:46
  #55 (permalink)  
jwcook
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Australia
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No I don't work for BAE systems, I just have an interest in the Typhoon.

APG79 vs Mechanically scanned Typhoon Radar - Winner SH (hands down!)
Have to agree (with reservations see later comment) - what about Captor-E (Caesar E scan)?, but what capability gap does the F111 leave that only an AESA radar can fill?

ATFLIR vs LITENING III - Winner ATFLIR (just I will conceed and some will disagree but SH A-G capability is mature so I will say SH)
Its really the ATFLIR vs Litening III and Pirate.

MIDS vs Typoon Datalink - Tie (link is link, don't you think?)
,

I thought they had the same MIDS terminal! the 'low volume' whotyamacallit


JHMCS vs Typhoon HMS - Tie
JDAM vs PW IV - Winner JDAM again because it is mature and PW IV is not yet working
The Typhoons EOC1 and EOC2 (AIUI these have now been replaced by a future capability contract cp210), These included Paveway II, III enhanced Paveway II, IV LGB, other PGM's Inc JDAM. another tie

Not to mention the other Typhoon weapons you mentioned:
Stormshadow vs JASSM - Winner JASSM (yes it might not work yet, but niether does stromshadow on Typhoon)
If they both don't work, why isn't it a tie? , so can we agree if they were both working?, advantage Typhoon!

Brimstone - Winner Typhoon, but I don't think the Red Army is much of a concern these days
Brimestone isn't integrated yet, again its a EOC1+2 thing, IIRC the FCP was signed in December 06, the actual details are still secret, with some items shuffled forward for the UK requirement for a more robust AtoG retirement.

ASRAAM vs AIM-9X - Winner Typhoon. Yep I'll give you that one but again this is replacing the F-111 not the F-18A which does have ASRAAM. We want A-G capability here.
As I understand it the Typhoon is a much better fighter than the Hornet, if they are doing the self escorting then thats an advantage to the Typhoon even if AtoG is the main function, if the range figures that are public are to be believed the Typhoon has a greater range, with conformals (offering a 25% increase in range and a near 50% increase in fuel) and storm shadow to well over 1000nm.

As I have said before you need to decide what the primary missions are, and what has produced the 'GAP' we are trying to fill.
We could try to argue each system, but this is ultimately futile as the capabilities are for the most part restricted information. even in matters where you assert the AESA of the Hornet is superior and I agree this is pure conjecture on my part, a side by side free access comparison may surprise us both!.

So far the two big reasons given are the demise of the Pig and superior fighters being procured in our region, therefore the three main things we are looking for to fill the 'GAP' should be range, air superiority and AtoG.

Comparison of Typhoon vs the F18E/F
Range - Typhoon advantage which will remain post 2010
Air Superiority - Typhoon advantage which will remain post 2010
AtoG SH advantage today and is equaled or surpassed in 2010-2012

This has turned into a one of those technical arguments, with severe thread creep away from the original cost benefit competition that I think was vital so we don't get screwed.

I still think there are alternatives - I know a lot less about the Rafale, but it might actually fit the bill better than the Typhoon especially in this case due to the AtoG weight you've assigned. and these may actually outweigh its obvious drawbacks.

In conclusion - I think the 'knee jerk' action of buying the SH, does not give Australia the best bang for buck, when you include capability offsets, work share, and interoperability with foreign operators.

Its complicated question thats for sure.

cheers
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