Scrogss I shall make the financial illustration clearer.
Person X and their friend person Y have debts of £100k each and live in an avergage properties worth £250k. The properties have no equity as the orginal mortgage of £150 has been added to by SECURED borrowing of £100k so that X & Y can go from Zero to SSTR level and/or pay a bond.
So total debt for X & Y is now £250k each. Equity = 0 each
Mortgage payments = £1500pcm Secured borrowing payments = £1000
Total SECURED Debt per month = £2500
It is clear that more is needed re food, transport, bills, clothing, etc but we shall ignore that for this example as it does nothing to clarify it we assume that there is another income to deal with this. With me so far.
Both X & Y previously worked as underwater basket weavers for £3500 pcm
X goes to work for Flybe for £22k i.e. will therefore take home c. £1300 pcm. If X works for Flybe for 3 years to get 2000hrs TP exp and then trades up to BMI/Thomsonfly, etc on £45k
Year 1 = 15,600, Year 2 = 18,000, Year 3 = 20,000
Y goes to work for Ryanair. Now Y will take home £750 pcm for 3 months, £1050 for 3 months, £2000 for 6 months and thereafter £3000 pcm. Y now has 2,500hrs JAR25 experience to boot.
Year 1 = 17,400, Year 2 = 36,000, Year 3 = 45,000
At the start of yr 2 Y can pay the same mortgage and outgoings. that he/she originally could X on the other hand will not be able to for ANOTHER 2 years.
So after 3 years they are both fine with respect to salary however in the 3 years it has taken X to get back to a living wage X has lost the family home and gained a personal understanding of the Insolvency Act 1986, 1994, 2006 updates included.
Clever Y on the other hand worked for next to nothing for a year because he/she included in the £100k debt a provision to make good the loss of earnings incurred in taking such route.(i.e. borrowed another £20k as a salary substitute)
Clever Y also hedged their bets so should the route not work out they could go back to underwater basket weaving for £3500 pcm and not loose their home
It gets better because Y could sustain the loss for long enough to get to a self sustaining income Y benefits from the rise in equity of oh about £40 which further bolsters the recovery and is spent further reducing the debt/increasing the equity.
Even if Y had, wait for it, worked for free for that year, Y would still be better of at the end of the period because they retained the property and thus the ability to capitalise on the equity.
So back to the question. Did I do the sums before I took on the debt, errm well yes. As you said £35k MIN is about right in fact I would say it is closer to £40 to break even if you take into account having a life as well as the absolute minimum. You actually make my point for me very well by doing the sums for me!! You are right it is not starter pay in very many industries but unless you have not noticed I am not a starting at £35k I start at £17k and it is a year to 18 months down the road that we get to £36 and then another before we go back to a living wage the difference is that it is a reasonably sure bet to get there (as long as you keep your job) if not then back to under water basket weaving.
So we finally agree on something i.e. that working for Flybe et all gives you an unsupportable debt. That is why people say what the hell and take the SSTR route with FR especially seeing as Flybe don't actually seem to actually have any form of queue/list filter system other than ex-Scabair instructors.
flyboy1818 I agree with you completly on one hand. The apprenticeship idea is pretty good would certainley cut down those without the stomach for hard work and dedication. I am certainley under no illusion at all about how the aviation industry works.
On the other hand as for your good lady self. I cast no aspersion over her but she obviously does not work in London, or if she does her boss is laughing all the way to the pub because the basics for many phones sales roles with any experience over a year or so are frequently over £25k. There are innumerous sales jobs for phones, telesales etc which will happily earn you over £70k in you really want them.
Go to totaljobs, monster or jobsite type in sales and with the exception of brand new starters you find me a job under £20k in London/Home counties that any likely pilot would not qualifiy for (i.e a level, degree or equivalent educated) Our cleaner gets £11 per hour!! get real yourself!
Hopefully the financial madness of not going the SSTR route have now been clarified. Next complaint to be resolved?
Scroggs as you correctly point out times are changing and there is not guarantee that £55k Captains basics will be available IF I get their but if as you suggest I get there and it has fallen further then that's life. The world does not owe me a living I will get over it, adapt and retrain again and again and again if I have to but for now it does and until it is gone forever I have the same right as YOU to try to get there. Are you scared that I am willing to do more than you for the same money or that profession is becoming worth less.
We will get paid whatever the market will allow. If that happens to drop £30k for captains on promotion in the next decade then indeed it means that the future will not see me skiing in Verbier every year. I really am not so scared of the prospect that I am not going to find out so that you can..... I'm game to see what the future holds maybe it is you who is so worried about what the industry owes you that need to lambast me for taking the ONLY opportunity I had available to me.
Harry Wragg. Self respect yep know what that is it's that feeling I get when I realize the lucky escape I had from Exeter or Belfast for 3 years in the morning before I go flying like you for hire and reward
The feeling you get from knowing that you took the most prudent and sensible route to protect you and yours future
I can't help notice that v6g, Sir Pratt and Jonty have gone awfully quiet long night stop perhaps come on then get amongst it ladies and gents at least support Scroggs thank you for the PMs of support by the way keep them coming but I wish you would all post them in the open. You know who you are
