GS Alpha
I didn't expect you to agree, however a few things to consider, naturally the ground staff are responsible for a larger part of the deficit as by a percentage they are a far bigger group.
Pension like staff travel is non contractual.
Quote "The pilots take out the same proportion of the fund as they put in" >>> Rubbish, this was a post on the engineers forum a while back and i think it sums things up fairly well, to retire 5 years earlier without anything else means you get 5 years of a pension the ground staff don't get, please don't tell me 1 - 1/4 % of your salary covers that
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This is not a dig at flight crew by the way just a comparison of the inequalities of the NAPs Pension
- if you further want to presume most of the Captains spend 1/2 their careers as first officers ( and I have corrected my figures as
I have received a PM confirming the shorthaul Captains pay scale goes up to 100K with 85K pensionable average )
the figures actually look like this
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These are the assumptions and I think they are realistic.
BA Technician Basic earnings ( 2004 ) £27000 -- Retirement age 60, started pension at 18, pays 5.25% contribution.
BA Shorthaul Captain earnings ( 2004 ) £85000 -- Retirement age 55, started pension at 18, pays 6.5% contribution.
Average age of death now is 80 by official figures.
Here is the basic premise.
Technician
Pays £1123PA for 42 years or £47178 ( £27000 - £6000 X 5.25% X 42 )
Receives £14000PA for 20 years or £280000 ( £27000 - £6000 abatement X 2/3 )
****** SO THE BA TECHNICIAN RECEIVES 5.93 TIMES WHAT HE / SHE PAYS IN ********
Captain
Pays £2535PA for 17 years or £43095 ( £45000 - £6000 X 6.5% X 17 )
+ £5135PA for 20 years or £102700 ( £85000 - £6000 X 6.5% X 20 ) = £145795
Receives £52666 for 25 years or £1315350 ( £85000 - £6000 abatement X 2/3 )
****** SO THE BA CAPTAIN RECEIVES 9.021 TIMES WHAT HE / SHE PAYS IN ********
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While I don't knock what groups get as rewards I know the shorthaul captains pensionable pay is currently about 100K ( Longhauls Captains pay x 80% - 6K abatement ) and life expectancy now 84, I would hazard to say long term flight crew are taking almost double ( as a percentage to payments ) from the scheme that mere mortals do!
Its very generalised but overall correct, i had no problem with that as such until BA came asking me for money to support a fund that failing
Quote "This is an exercise in clearing the deficit, not redistributing wealth." >>> very true but it must be on the basis of those that caused more clear more
Quote "So why should the pilots pensions fund yours? " >>> nobody wants it too, we just want you to start funding it rather than effectively letting others, the only way that would be fair is to correct the fund so its the same for everyone ( without giving one group a bribe to keep them special ).
Quote "BA pay higher multiples of our contributions than they do for you, Its all part of the fact we get better remuneration and whether your like it or think its fair is, I'm afraid, irrelevant." >>> well its irrelevant until i am asked to start funding it, so why is BAs deficit so large compared to other companies?, could part of the problem be it pays out more for certain groups than outer funds - proportionally?
I want to stress that i don't hate the pilots, i do believe you get a better deal from NAPs than the ground staff and the FUND pays for that ( and so the deficit ), i do believe that raising the pensionable pay to 95% of a longhaul captains PP24 pay constitutes a bribe for you and Balpa to accept it and is unwarranted and immoral.
here is a copy of the letter GMB members have received >>>
You may have heard that the BA Forum, which includes the GMB, is recommending the latest proposals concerning the NAPS pensions scheme.
However, the GMB is not recommending these proposals and has never done so.
In fact, we are recommending that you reject the proposals, for the following reasons:
1) If you are in NAPS you will have to double your pensions contributions just to retain some of your current pension package. For the vast majority, this will be unaffordable.
2) We think that the proposals unfairly favour certain groups, in particular the pilots.
3) We believe that BA is in a position to pay more. The value of the company has doubled since the start of the pensions debate.
4) The proposed changes would be set in stone. There is no commitment for a review, should the situation improve,
5) Other than for the pilots, there are no improvements in BA's final offer for staff who are in the BARP scheme. This remains a very poor scheme.
6) We have had no assurances from BA that our members in APS will continue to have their pay rises fully pensionable.
However, as always, the final decision will be made by you, the members.
We will shortly be giving you the opportunity to tell us whether or not to accept the proposals.
This consultation will take the form, in the first instance, of an internal ballot, run by the GMB.
You will be provided with full details of the proposals and (provided we can get BA to cooperate) you will be able to question your negotiators and state your views in meetings of our members.
In order to gauge how strongly you feel, you will also be asked whether you would be prepared to take industrial action, should BA decide to impose these changes.
However, we can re-assure you that such a drastic course of action would only be undertaken if all alternatives had been exhausted and only after a further balloting process had been completed."
I think you will find a "Large " Majority of ground staff support that view, its the first time in my 22 years at BA i have felt the urge to strike ( i am not in the GMB ) and sadly the first time i have felt bad feeling towards the pilot community at BA.