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Old 17th Dec 2006, 09:20
  #21 (permalink)  
Flying Lawyer
 
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G'day asara

Let's see where we've got so far -
  • You said: "Australia, bring on random drug and alcohol testing."
  • You were concerned at (doubted the accuracy of) my response: ".......... I've seen no evidence that it is or ever has been a flight safety problem."
  • So, you checked the ATSB website and found a study, the specific purpose of which was to determine the prevalence and nature of drug and alcohol-related accidents and incidents in Australian civil aviation.
  • The study found that, in just over 31 years:
    • there were only 22 alcohol-related incidents
    • drug (incl prescription drugs and over-the-counter medications ) and alcohol events accounted for only 0.02 per cent of all the occurrences listed on the ATSB's database, and for only 0.4 per cent of all accidents.
  • Because the evidence doesn't support (or, more accurately, demolishes) your preconceived notion (hunch?), you:
    • assume it cannot be correct
    • question the study's methodology.
    • suggest that either blood/alchol tests may not be routinely performed following an accident or, if they are, they are performed when the pilots' blood/alchol level "no longer becomes a factor." (Please correct me if I'm wrong but, I take it the last point means you're assuming it would have been, at least in some instances, if the test had been performed earlier. ie You're trying to find some reason for your hunch being correct and the study's findings flawed.)
I don't know the answer to your question about whether there is a requirement for blood/alcohol testing after an accident in Australia. In most parts of the world, it's routinely measured as a matter of course from pilots killed in fatal accidents. I assume that happens in Australia, but I don't know.

We also need to bear in mind:
  • that not all accidents/incidents are a result of pilot error. (The study doesn't appear to have differentiated.)
  • that, even if alcohol is found in a pilot's system following a 'pilot error' accident/incident, it does not necessarily follow that alcohol either caused or contributed to the error.
So far, we've only considered percentages relating to accidents/incidents. To get a true perspective, we'd also need to know the percentage of flights flown by Australian pilots every year without any accident or incident. I don't know the figure - perhaps you can find it - but I think we can safely say millions of miles/hours are flown each year without either accident or incident.
ie 22 alcohol-related incidents in how many hundreds of thousands (or millions) of flights in the 31 years?


With so many Alcohol related road accidents and other acts of stupidity I refuse to believe that alcohol cannot be a problem in the aviation industry.
  • Which? Road accidents caused or contributed to by a driver's ability being impaired by alcohol? Or other acts of driver stupidity generally?
  • If you think the degree of care and responsibility exhibited by professional pilots embarking upon a flight is no better than the degree of care and responsibility exhibited by drivers before driving, I can only assume you either don't know many professional pilots or, if you do, you move in very odd circles.
You "refuse to believe that alcohol cannot be a problem in the aviation industry."

You refuse to believe?
There's not much point in a discussion if you aren't prepared to approach it with an open mind, free of preconceived notions.

Even assuming for the purpose of discussion that more pilots have flown with alcohol in their systems over that 31 year period than have been detected:
Where is the evidence that they are crashing in consequence?
Or causing incidents falling short of an accident?
ie Where is your evidence that alcohol is a flight safety problem in the aviation industry?

I based my assertion on a knowledge of the stats, and two decades dealing professionally with aviation accidents/incidents.
Just out of interest, what's your basis for your assertion, and your wish to see "Australia, bring on random drug and alcohol testing."?


FL


BTW, I referred to professional pilots because you referred to the aviation industry. My comments apply equally to private pilots.

Last edited by Flying Lawyer; 17th Dec 2006 at 20:00.
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