Originally Posted by
BillieBob
There is a certain amount of thread creep here.
Thats probably because the original question has been answered.
Originally Posted by
BillieBob
Of course, llanfairpg's example is even less relevant since whatever training he was providing on his public transport flights was obviously not training for the issue of a licence or aircraft rating.
Ah but you see you said
FLIGHT INSTRUCTION you didnt say training for the issue of a licence rating or aircraft rating, read your own post. Your still wrong anyway because i can still (and do) provide training for an aircraft rating, Eg A320,that is an aircraft rating, I am looking at mine in my licence now. This is where you can tie yourself up in knots if you do not really understand the legislation. Remember that most training captains in airlines have never ever completed a flying instructors rating. What you should have said is that where a new group Eg single engine to multi training is taking place only an FI with a valid multi engine instructional endorsement can carry this out. EG If you had an only SEP rating or a type rating on a single engine aircraft you could not be given a rating on a multi unless you were being trained by a FI with the multi engine training endorsement. However if you already had a multi rating or a twin engined aircraft type rating any authorised training captain can convert you onto say the Airbus even if you had only previously flown say a Seneca(we do it all the time) but I can not pop over to the airline over the road and do a rating for you. Why not, different AOC and ops manual, once I have been accepted by the CAA and read the new ops manual I then can do your type rating with the new company.
Originally Posted by
BillieBob
llanfairpg went on to state If this were true then every training flight conducted by OAT, FTE, etc., which are not 'clubs' and do not hold AOCs, would be illegal public transport - I think not!
This is what i actually said
But getting back to Aerial Work, it is my understanding that if you and the student are not members of a club and you take them flying for the purposes of letting the student handle the controls it is public transport and therefore you need an AOC, Ops manual etc. Wasnt there the case involving the two seat Spitfire 9?[/quote]
Originally Posted by
BillieBob
To summarise -
An AOC is not required in order to provide training or testing for a licence or aircraft rating. WRONG i cannot give you flight instruction for an A320 rating unless the company has a valid AOC and a CAA approved Ops Manual.
Training for a licence or aircraft rating does not have to take place within a 'club'.
The confusion in the latter case may be related to the the privileges of an FI who holds only a PPL. The privileges of a PPL do not include aerial work except for glider towing, para dropping or flight instruction and testing "in an aeroplane owned, or operated under arrangements entered into, by a flying club of which the person giving the instruction or conducting the test and the person receiving the instruction or undergoing the test are both members" Note that it is the qualification of the FI that requires the club environment, not the flight instruction.
You have got me confused here and i think i am also confusing you so perhaps the best thing to do is start again with a new thread. I will think of an example and see what everyone says