Originally Posted by
bookworm
A couple of days ago at Rotterdam I was holding at V1 which is the last but one entry to RW24. Another aircraft was entering via the end of runway holding point, and I was given an instruction that I recall as "after the departing <aircraft type> line up behind and wait". Thus I needed to wait until the other had commenced its take-off roll and passed the intersection.
In operations at my home base, I don't recall an aircraft at an intersection being given such a conditional line-up clearance that included waiting for a departing aircraft to pass an intersection. Is that standard practice? It reminded me of the runway collision at CDG a few years ago, though in this particular case it was perfectly clear what was intended.
Exactly - in your case, BW, it was quite clear, an accurate condition prefixed the instruction, which, presumably you read back. The situation at Paris was that the controller thought that the Shorts 360 was
behind the MD at the threshold holding point and therefore it was pointless, indeed, confusing and wrong, to give a conditional line-up.
The UK CAA addressed this potential disaster scenario by requiring ATC to specify the holding point designator if a line-up is given at an intersection other than for a full-length departure. However, to be effective, it has to be guaranteed that a pilot will query the instruction if he is given a line-up from such a position
without the holding point being specified. I do not recall any publicity (AIC etc) emphasising this procedure to pilots. If anyone has seen any such material, I stand to be corrected, but the criticism still stands, that it is a half-baked procedure. If NATS is introducing the procedure that is the subject of this thread, that would seem to be far more pertinent, but why, oh why, are they not going through CAA are getting it standardised throught the UK?