4spooled et al - as I said previously, the thing WILL climb - albeit not real well. The example I quoted previously was at Armidale in summer (high and hot) at MTOW. It ain't the bestest aeroplane around, but it ain't a complete dog either. (you want to talk about negative climb performance in assy configuration try a Seneca - the 1st one - or an Apache 160). Let's see what the guys with all the inside knowledge and facts come up with.