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Old 14th Nov 2006, 18:19
  #49 (permalink)  
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 563
dear 120.4

you have really started something here and I think it is a good thing.

While I have never been to England, certainly KORD must qualify as a busy airport with demanding speed control.

I was flying as copilot to a complete arse of a captain. we were told to do 160 knots to a certain point and we acknowledged same...

the captain slowed to 145 knots and boy was ATC yelling.

threats to take us off the final etc.

I asked the captain why he didn't speed up...he said: I am stable now and don't plan to change my power setting.

There are actually pilots who believe they must not touch the throttles once stable...more power, faster, yes you might have to retrim and put the nose down a bit to keep the glide slope.

Part of this is training. I had a checkout one time in a piper, I was the instructor and had another CFI getting checked out to fly a T tail turbo lance. He asked me what power setting to use on final...I told him it changes with conditions, mainly wind, but why not start with about 17inchess of MAP.

there we were on final, getting lower and lower on the GS and I asked him what he planned to do (again, this chap had a cfi commercial instrument)...HE told me that I WAS WRONG AND THAT 17 inches of MAP would not hold the glide slope ( very high winds down the runway).

I was in was someone who didn't know enough to add power...this chap is now a captain for a major airline.

DEAR 120.4...sometimes pilots are simply not familiar enough to be too precise with planes...modern airliners of course have a great amount of automation which should allow people to fly within 1 knot of assigned speed...but

is it clarification? is it something you say in your clearance? maybe say...maintain 160 knots to 3 mile final and NOT ONE KNOT LESS till then.

emphasis mine

I will take flack for this, but there are some marginal pilots out there...others are quite good but stubborn about bumping up the throttles...FUEL EFFICENY don't you know.

And some controllers just accept as fact that planes are slippery etc. well, they can all pretty much do 160 knots on final...but some pilots won't want to use more flaps etc.

I wish you luck and perhaps an all users meeting with pilots and controllers might help.

And yes, that 737 flap/rudder stuff did muck things up a put out more flaps and gear and yes you might have to add power just like my checkout student was so reluctant to do.

good luck

jondc9 is offline