So it would look like our MAN airline (the ones with the 78's on order) are WELL below the adverage - I noticed before a LPL cargo and pax airline sadly went down they were paying 19k (rose from 12K!!) for the 12 hour day/night shifts 15k and then 80 a month after tax just is not enough for an airline with 32 aircraft, and us doing etops dispatches too!